Wondering how other folks handle playing with sub par musicians?

LAG · #1 03-07-2011, 11:39 AM

I play bass guitar on rotation at my church. I have years experience and put time in to keep my timing skills sharp. When I am on for the weekend, I study my parts and get them down so I am confident and ready to do a good job so everything clicks real well, come Sunday morning. I give my 100% and love it.

My congregation boasts about the quantity of people it has on it's team available on rotation, which is close to 50 people. There have some good musicians and singers on board. But, some are not and these folks do not practice or have any time or passion to improve, but are very nice people.

I get frustrated playing with drummers that cant keep time, keyboardists that are hacks and guitarists that can't play a part except for strumming heavy chords on every song. I have a major love for playing but find myself making excuses to be unavailable when the team scheduled consists of sub par players.

I find it hard to communicate to others that I do not wish to play with those that are not committed musicians, the folks just showing up to fill a spot.

It is tough to say no, but easier than trying to make music with poor players.

WalterBush · #2 03-07-2011, 11:44 AM

In a worship team situation, I just try to help such musicians along as best I can, and remember that I'm there for God's glory, not mine, and that He knows who's getting on stage at church.

Outside of church, I just don't play with sub-par musicians once they've shown themselves to be sub-par; I don't get rude about it, I just can't afford to play music for a hobby, and if I did, I wouldn't want my hobby time taken up with someone who doesn't enjoy playing their instrument enough to practice between rehearsals.

jaywa · #3 03-07-2011, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WalterBush

In a worship team situation, I just try to help such musicians along as best I can, and remember that I'm there for God's glory, not mine, and that He knows who's getting on stage at church.

Outside of church, I just don't play with sub-par musicians once they've shown themselves to be sub-par; I don't get rude about it, I just can't afford to play music for a hobby, and if I did, I wouldn't want my hobby time taken up with someone who doesn't enjoy playing their instrument enough to practice between rehearsals.

This is how I roll, as well.

BigOldHarry · #4 03-07-2011, 01:01 PM

In a volunteer gig, like church or charity thing, you have to be patient.

HOWEVER... If the dude is just plain dragging the gig down, find a polite way of telling him to go woodshed and come back when he can hang. No point in ruining everything just to protect some guys ego.

Jazzdogg · #5 03-07-2011, 01:12 PM

Talk to your church's musical director to find out what his or her priorities are and adjust your expectations accordingly.

IME, church and social situations are akin to watching my 3-year-old nephew play T-ball; everyone gets a chance at bat, and everyone else is expected to cheer even if it takes twelve swings before bat hits ball.

In those situations, even the best players bite their tongue and play nice. If that ain't your thing, you've gotta ask yourself what your priorities are and find a situation in which you'll be satisfied.

LAG · #6 03-07-2011, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WalterBush

I wouldn't want my hobby time taken up with someone who doesn't enjoy playing their instrument enough to practice between rehearsals.

This sums it up pretty well in my situation even though playing in church is viewed as a lot more then just "hobby" time, for myself.

JimmyM · #7 03-07-2011, 06:11 PM

i either don't do it at all, or if forced into it, i sit there and pretend i'm having a great time even though i'm ready to shoot myself. all i care about is the money

pbasswil · #8 03-07-2011, 06:26 PM

I don't know, seems like a decision we've all got to make for ourselves. If members of the group are sucking the pleasure out of playing, we've got to ask ourselves "Is there some other reward for playing this gig?"

Let's face it, sometimes all we can come up with is, "This pays the rent; it's better than flipping burgers." :^D

I'm not so young any more; life is starting to seem finite.
I don't gig as much as I used to, but a tiny bit of financial security seems to allow me to be a bit more discriminating.

Rockmusician · #9 03-07-2011, 06:28 PM

I handle it pretty easily. I don't bother playing with them.

Mojo-Man · #10 03-07-2011, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

i either don't do it at all, or if forced into it, i sit there and pretend i'm having a great time even though i'm ready to shoot myself. all i care about is the money

Jimmy hit it on the head.
If they want to learn, I may make suggestions to help.
We all have quit bands were people don't want to learn.
It's tuff, grin a bare it.

mpdd · #11 03-07-2011, 07:39 PM

generally after playing the same song 30 or 40 times i start to get irritated and play pretty badly too

thank god we haven't started playing any shows yet

saustindavis · #12 03-07-2011, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzdogg

Talk to your church's musical director to find out what his or her priorities are and adjust your expectations accordingly.

IME, church and social situations are akin to watching my 3-year-old nephew play T-ball; everyone gets a chance at bat, and everyone else is expected to cheer even if it takes twelve swings before bat hits ball.

In those situations, even the best players bite their tongue and play nice. If that ain't your thing, you've gotta ask yourself what your priorities are and find a situation in which you'll be satisfied.

I like your analogy. That's about right from what I've noticed. We did go to a church for a couple of years where they made sure most people were at the same level. Not in a rude way or anything, and the music there was the best I've ever played with.

Mike M. · #13 03-08-2011, 06:08 AM

I had the same problem as well at the church I use to play at. The fact is the team I was on could have done a lot better, most people came very unprepared and no one listened to the thing as a whole. Fact is I couldn't stand listening to our rehearsal discs. One day after practice I said, "I think it's time we raised the bar as a band and I think as a band we can do better." I didn't single out anyone individual, I didn't put anyone down either and I did not come across as Mr. Got-it-all-together. I said "we." That did NOT go down well at all with one member in particular and he was real snide to me for quite a while after.

My whole point was....how would it appear if the pastor got up to deliver his message and came unprepared? How is he going to reach us if he doesn't come across in a convincing manner? Didn't make any differance and I don't play there anymore.

I know the whole point of being there was to serve God and I loved that part of it. But at the same time I couldn't ignore the part in me that wanted to see it all being done better. I wanted us as a band to be as good as the pastor was during his message.

Was I wrong for wanting that?

HeadyVan Halen · #14 03-08-2011, 06:17 AM

This is why they pay musicians here. Kinda like a cover charge at a bar...keeps the riff-raff out. If someone is not getting the job done, they can have their contract null and void.

To answer your question however, would you be interested in getting together with one or more of them outside of church for your own rehearsal? This helps in 2 reasons:

1. Of course, you two will get tighter. Musically and personally.
2. If/when you start improving, it usually becomes contagious and others want to get better..

Just a thought.

nysbob · #15 03-08-2011, 06:39 AM

I play a volunteer church gig. My personal standards, as far as what I'm doing, are the same as on any paying gig.
When it comes to the other players, the skill and experience level varies tremendously... I just try to help them along as best I can. You've really got to check your ego at the door at a place of of worship IMO.

saustindavis · #16 03-08-2011, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nysbob

I play a volunteer church gig. My personal standards, as far as what I'm doing, are the same as on any paying gig.
When it comes to the other players, the skill and experience level varies tremendously... I just try to help them along as best I can. You've really got to check your ego at the door at a place of of worship IMO.

I hear what you're saying, but we are also called to bring excellence before the Lord, our firstfruits. I've know some worship leaders that use this to exclude far too many people so that they can have the best church music in town, which isn't fair or right. That said I still believe that it's the worship leader responsibility to bring the churches firstfruits in regards to music. It's a fine line, and I have been guilty of crossing it from time to time. As a volunteer I do the best I can and give pointers along the way without being a jerk.

Phalex · #17 03-08-2011, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WalterBush

In a worship team situation, I just try to help such musicians along as best I can, and remember that I'm there for God's glory, not mine, and that He knows who's getting on stage at church.

Outside of church, I just don't play with sub-par musicians once they've shown themselves to be sub-par; I don't get rude about it, I just can't afford to play music for a hobby, and if I did, I wouldn't want my hobby time taken up with someone who doesn't enjoy playing their instrument enough to practice between rehearsals.

+1!

**pacojas** · #18 03-08-2011, 10:08 AM

(it's a test, my son)

hint: be a leader and either take control, bow out, or break out. your decisions define you.

need of some humbling?

here it is: You Were Sub-Par Once, and someone said the same thing about you.

sgtpepper · #19 03-08-2011, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzdogg

IME, church and social situations are akin to watching my 3-year-old nephew play T-ball; everyone gets a chance at bat, and everyone else is expected to cheer even if it takes twelve swings before bat hits ball.

In those situations, even the best players bite their tongue and play nice. If that ain't your thing, you've gotta ask yourself what your priorities are and find a situation in which you'll be satisfied.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pacojas

(it's a test, my son)

hint: be a leader and either take control, bow out, or break out. your decisions define you.

need of some humbling?

here it is: You Were Sub-Par Once, and someone said the same thing about you.

+1 for these two.

I learned to play bass in church. The guy that was the bass player at that time taught me some easy tunes and let me play sometimes. Obviously I was a sub-par and SUCKED.

But IMHO that's what church is about: SHARING.

If you don't feel comfortable playing with sub-par musicians there, just communicate that to the people and I'm sure they will fully understand you. Or maybe you can take the lead and help those guys to be better musicians.

lucas vigor · #20 03-08-2011, 10:28 AM

[quote=WalterBush;10553787]In a worship team situation, I just try to help such musicians along as best I can, and remember that I'm there for God's glory, not mine, and that He knows who's getting on stage at church.

Outside of church, I just don't play with sub-par musicians once they've shown themselves to be sub-par; I don't get rude about it, I just can't afford to play music for a hobby, and if I did, I wouldn't want my hobby time taken up with someone who doesn't enjoy playing their instrument enough to practice between rehearsals.[/QUOTE]

Yep!