Albert Stinson - Page 2

ThomsonKneeland · #21 05-30-2009, 11:26 PM

Hey, if anyone has any interest, I just posted a transcription of Stinson's solo on Forest Flower online...not my favorite tune, but it was pretty fascinating seeing how Stinson approached it intervallically and how he physically got around on the instrument and was always going for stuff with gestural arpeggios spanning 2-4 octaves and more.
I certainly learned a lot from the transcription
so not to toot my own horn, but if anyone's interested, go to www.thomsonkneeland.com click on the "educational" button, and I've got a page without about 20 transcriptions I've done; free to download; hope some people get some use out of these too!

ThomsonKneeland · #22 05-30-2009, 11:27 PM

Oh, and has anyone heard the John Handy record from 67 with Stinson? I just bought a vinyl copy off Ebay, hoping for some Stinson solos on there...

Mike Arnopol · #23 05-31-2009, 09:53 AM

Stinson was (or is) one of my idols. I was a LaFaro fanatic and heard Albert on some Clare Fischer stuff and was blown away. In a lot of ways I dig him more than Scotty. Oblique is one of my favorite sides. I have a Dennis Budimir (guitarist ) side that is more of a jam session. Alberts sounds SCARY on that. Majestic tone, swinging hard, breaking it up in intelligent ways. And I think more mature solos than Scotty. Albert is kind of a model for me in terms of sound, conception, feel and blowing.

Eric Hochberg · #24 05-31-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThomsonKneeland

Hey, if anyone has any interest, I just posted a transcription of Stinson's solo on Forest Flower online...

Thanks, for this, I'll check it out today with a student.

ThomsonKneeland · #25 05-31-2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

In a lot of ways I dig him more than Scotty. Oblique is one of my favorite sides. I have a Dennis Budimir (guitarist ) side that is more of a jam session. Alberts sounds SCARY on that. Majestic tone, swinging hard, breaking it up in intelligent ways. And I think more mature solos than Scotty. Albert is kind of a model for me in terms of sound, conception, feel and blowing.

I have to admit that Scotty never hit me on a personal aesthetic level, but I was drawn into Stinson's playing from the second I heard "Oblique"...for me he has that earthy element of Jimmy Garrison that really grounds everything he does technically.
I've got to find that Budimir album...I doubt it's been reissued on CD, so will require a little bit of hunting...

ThomsonKneeland · #26 05-31-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehochberg

Thanks, for this, I'll check it out today with a student.

glad it 'll have some use...definitely some gestural rhythmic stuff in the solo, is just that, so there are definitely approximations rhythmically, unless someone wants to translate 13:7 and such, but the point is the phrasing and gestures, so...
And I was really surprised at how much Stinson is NOT nailing the changes sometimes. But again the phrasing and gestures transcend the actual harmony, as in any advanced player. Of course, the chords laid out, and for good reason to give Mr Stinson some space to open up

Paul Warburton · #27 05-31-2009, 04:38 PM

Thomson, I've never heard the words "gestures" and "gestural" before in regards to playing. I'm pretty un-hip out here in Coloado I guess. Can you clarify?

Do you have the Miles concert? To be frank, it sounds at times like Albert doesn't know the tunes.

Eric Hochberg · #28 05-31-2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThomsonKneeland

And I was really surprised at how much Stinson is NOT nailing the changes sometimes.

Yeah, I noticed this immediately while going over it. Haven't heard the recording, only available on itunes with the complete album. I guess it must still be pretty nice or you wouldn't have picked it to transcribe.

Mike Arnopol · #29 05-31-2009, 05:14 PM

I keep threatening to buy a phono preamp to dac converter so that I can start converting my vinyl (about 3000 strong) to digital. I'll make a mental note to get in touch and get you a copy of the Budimir album. I have the same feelings about Albert. While Scotty inspired me as far as blowing he was never a role model as far as section. Not that he wasn't a great section player, but it never slayed me. Except for the album Ornette where he essentially subbed for Charlie. And to be honest, I even dug him more (than Charlie). I think it was near the end of his life, but he was a MUCH wiser accompanist. It was like he completely understood what Charlie did and expanded on it. By the way, I've played with vibist Stefon Harris on numerous occasions. His favorite album as far as vibes is Oblique.

Paul Warburton · #30 05-31-2009, 05:50 PM

This is begining to sound like a Scott LaFaro vs Albert Stinson trip here and I find myself feeling like I should defend Scott. Don't wanna do.
I will say that I think Scott kicked some serious ass in terms of section playing in L.A. before he moved out East. It was the foundation of an historical musical event for the bass. IMO.
This opinion doesn't color my regard for Albert. He sounded great, even on my bass.

ThomsonKneeland · #31 05-31-2009, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

Thomson, I've never heard the words "gestures" and "gestural" before in regards to playing. I'm pretty un-hip out here in Coloado I guess. Can you clarify?

Do you have the Miles concert? To be frank, it sounds at times like Albert doesn't know the tunes.

Requires more than a simple one sentence explanation...but one of the ways I dissect time conceptually is "gestural" vs "grid". A grid concept of time uses strict subdivisions with an eighth note underpinning, triplet, whatever. I visualize this as a grid. In contrast, gestural rhythm relies upon the physical aspect of a gesture from time A to time B. Imagine Jack Dejohnette or Tony Oxley...sometimes the placement of each note is dependent upon the physical gesture, not 16th notes or such. or in bass playing...take Miroslav Vitous, Francois Moutin and others who execute a run up or down the neck, resolving at a specific point...but the notes in between are physically dependent in terms of time and how fast the fingers move.
I hope that makes some sense. I could sing it and you'd know what I meant in 5 seconds.
I'm sure I'm not the first to come up with this, certainly, but that's how I've quantified it for teaching, playing, etc. Dejohnette plays gesturally quite often...Bill Stewart, a grid player.

I haven't heard the Miles stuff with Stinson, and didn't even know it was out there. Is that on a torrent site or anything? Would love to land a copy of that! Just for knowledge sake, even if he doesnt know the tunes. I still need to land a copy of the group with Peacock...

As for Scotty, I have no issues with him, just aesthetically never grabbed me in terms of the Bill Evans recordings in terms of rhythm section interplay. And I assume you have the stuff at Birdland too? honestly, I would have loved to have heard Lafaro, Evans, and a different drummer and seen what that chemistry would have been. For whatever reason, that trio doesn't grab me, and I am certainly not a traditionalist in terms of rhythm sections and walking. But I love the Hampton Hawes record, For Real, what a sound! And groove

ThomsonKneeland · #32 05-31-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

I'll make a mental note to get in touch and get you a copy of the Budimir album. Except for the album Ornette where he essentially subbed for Charlie.

that would be awesome, Mike! I'll be on the lookout for it on Ebay and such as well, as I am into vinyl, but that sounds like a rare one.
I do really like Scotty on that Ornette album too.
I think we played opposite each other in Croatia a few months ago, I was playing the night before you, but we never crossed paths. Anyways, catch you later!

Mike Arnopol · #33 06-01-2009, 12:11 AM

were you playing withn the youngster Grace Kelly. Gee, she didn't look like Grace Kelly.( seemed very nice, though.

ThomsonKneeland · #34 06-19-2009, 06:14 PM

I just found an interview with Stinson, Chico Hamilton and Gabor Szabo..."a blindfold test".
Interestingly enough for me, I had previously mentioned that to my ears Stinson was a combination of Lafaro's melodic output and Jimmy Garrison's meaty pulse and sound (if one has to make a comparison). I had been wondering if Garrison had any influence on Stinson. Well the one player Stinson cited in the interview? Garrison

"Stinson: I’d like to put in a word for Jimmy Garrison. Nobody ever talks about him—and they should."

full interview is here:
http://www.jazzprofessional.com/blin...20Hamilton.htm

chop_1992 · #35 06-20-2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThomsonKneeland

Requires more than a simple one sentence explanation...but one of the ways I dissect time conceptually is "gestural" vs "grid". A grid concept of time uses strict subdivisions with an eighth note underpinning, triplet, whatever. I visualize this as a grid. In contrast, gestural rhythm relies upon the physical aspect of a gesture from time A to time B.

For a subject that is very hard to describe in writing, you did a great job-thanks, Thomson.

chop_1992 · #36 06-20-2009, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfkbass

Doug Weiss told me a few years back about him, and told me about a particular (out of print) Bobby Hutcherson album called "Oblique" that Stinson plays on. Anyone have any more info about him?

"Oblique" is a great record . . . great Stinson! So modern, yet so grounded.

JDubbleyoo · #37 06-21-2009, 02:13 AM

Thomson, thanks for the interview--that was great.

Ike Harris · #38 06-21-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol

were you playing withn the youngster Grace Kelly. Gee, she didn't look like Grace Kelly.( seemed very nice, though.

Caught her a few weeks ago on sat radio, saw the name on the car display and went, Huh? Anyway, will check out some Albert S. on Amazon and see what the fuss is about. I'll see Bill Goodwin in a month and ask him about Stinson as well.

-ike

tristano3 · #39 02-10-2011, 09:52 AM

I hope this contribution is not too late to catch the attention of you bloggers.
How great to come across a thread appreciating this guy. One of you mentions Chico's 1963 album 'A Different Journey' This has by far the best of Stinson on disc, and one track - One, Sheridan Square - features him extensively, almost like a concerto soloist, with breaks at the head and at the end, as well as a long solo. This is simply the greatest bass playing I have ever heard, stunning in its horn-like fluency and flexibility, and a huge and coherent musical statement packed with wonderful ideas. His roots seem to come more from Mingus than from the hot guys of the time (La Faro and Peacock etc). To qualify my earlier remark, it is not just one of the great bass solos, it is one of the great Jazz solos, on any instrument.
This great disc, one of Chico's very best, was beautifully recorded, unlike the shocking Impulse discs with the same band. However, it was never properly released (certainly not in the UK), due to the fact that at the time of issue Reprise changed hands (I think Sinatra sold the label), and some of their output fell between the cracks, so to speak. If it had gained the publicity it deserved, the reputation of Stinson would be up there with the other giants of the instrument.
The cd appears to be available on Amazon (I have the original LP). Go get it, and see if you agree!

tristano3 · #40 02-10-2011, 03:41 PM

I hope this contribution is not too late to catch the attention of you bloggers.
How great to come across a thread appreciating this guy. One of you mentions Chico's 1963 album 'A Different Journey' This has by far the best of Stinson on disc, and one track - One, Sheridan Square - features him extensively, almost like a concerto soloist, with breaks at the head and at the end, as well as a long solo. This is simply the greatest bass playing I have ever heard, stunning in its horn-like fluency and flexibility, and a huge and coherent musical statement packed with wonderful ideas. His roots seem to come more from Mingus than from the hot guys of the time (La Faro and Peacock etc). To qualify my earlier remark, it is not just one of the great bass solos, it is one of the great Jazz solos, on any instrument.
This great disc, one of Chico's very best, was beautifully recorded, unlike the shocking Impulse discs with the same band. However, it was never properly released (certainly not in the UK), due to the fact that at the time of issue Reprise changed hands (I think Sinatra sold the label), and some of their output fell between the cracks, so to speak. If it had gained the publicity it deserved, the reputation of Stinson would be up there with the other giants of the instrument.
The cd appears to be available on Amazon (I have the original LP). Go get it, and see if you agree!