Bill Evans and Scott LaFaro

[ameshokostreet]

I recently started listening to him and i really like his playing alot. He seems to use many unique chords and his playing sounds very unorthodox to me. Can anybody who understand his approach explain to me what is he doing because it really confuses my ears even though it sounds very nice. Im also confused about Scott Lafaro's accompanying as it sounds just as unique and unorthodox. Any form of explanation would be nice.

[Kevin Hsieh]

paging Paul Warburton

[Jeremy Darrow]

Don't miss what drummer Paul Motian is up to either, classic trio.

[ameshokostreet]

can anybody clear my doubts?

[Shovelbone]

Originally Posted by ameshokostreet

I recently started listening to him and i really like his playing alot. He seems to use many unique chords and his playing sounds very unorthodox to me. Can anybody who understand his approach explain to me what is he doing because it really confuses my ears even though it sounds very nice. Im also confused about Scott Lafaro's accompanying as it sounds just as unique and unorthodox. Any form of explanation would be nice.

I will probably get beat up for this but IMHO Scott Lafaro was Jaco before there was a Jaco!

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Originally Posted by ameshokostreet

I recently started listening to him and i really like his playing alot. He seems to use many unique chords and his playing sounds very unorthodox to me. Can anybody who understand his approach explain to me what is he doing because it really confuses my ears even though it sounds very nice. Im also confused about Scott Lafaro's accompanying as it sounds just as unique and unorthodox. Any form of explanation would be nice.

That combination of Evans, LaFaro, Motian was unique and trailblazing due to their 'collective improvisation'. They all seemed so free even in their comping roles. Scott almost sounded like he was soloing but he always took care of business. His playing was more controlled on Portrait in Jazz than the live album. I wonder if he had grown more confident by then or was just more free in a live setting.

I haven't really 'studied' his playing like some, but that's my take on it.

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by ameshokostreet

can anybody clear my doubts?

You haven't expressed any "doubts", so it's going to be kind of hard to "clear" them. Splain more simply what the **** you're talking about.

There's a lot going on rhythmically, melodically and harmonically in the way these guys are approaching playing, you might want to do a few things on your own. The Prettinger book on Evans is a nice background read, there's a number of videos of the post Scotty trio and a great one where Bill talks a lot about playing. There's a few other records that have Scotty playing on them that predate the Evans trio (including his playing with Ornette) that you should check out to hear the breadth of what Scotty was about. Likewise listen to Bill with Miles, Bill subbing for Lennie on the Half Note recordings, Bill on INTERPLAY, Bill on EVERYBODY DIGS... and start listening to the similarities and disparities. Read the interviews in the mags w/Bill, the STEVE ALLEN show appearance etc etc etc.

If you have something less vague and general to ask, ask away and you'll get more substantive answers.

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Ed's right on the money.
The Prettinger book is a good one for helping to understand Bill Evans.

This may help you as well. I believe that Bill's playing style freed the bassist somewhat from the standard role of timekeeping and harmony. A traditional bassist's role just wouldn't have fit with Bill's playing at that time.
To understand Scotty's playing, you need to go to Bill Evans. The video series with His brother Harry is a good place to start:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=basa3...eature=related

[zeytoun]

Originally Posted by clink

I believe that Bill's playing style freed the bassist somewhat from the standard role of timekeeping and harmony. A traditional bassist's role just wouldn't have fit with Bill's playing at that time.

Do you mean that since Bill's piano playing was about essentialism (in part 2 of the video he talks about the snare of "overplaying" without exploring the framework of the original composition), it allowed Scott to experiment a bit more? (Something similar to what went on with Brubeck and Desmond?)

Forgive me if I'm being ignorant, just trying to understand.

[Marcus Johnson]

I personally think that trying to explain Bill Evans is like trying to push a rope. Or maybe catch lightning in a bottle. Countless pianists have chased what Bill Evans did, with varying levels of success, but nobody ever really got it. You can analyze the theory, copy the licks for a lifetime, watch the videos, and marry into his family, but what he did is really not measurable. Maybe that's too abstract an answer for what you're asking, but I believe it's the truth. After all the analysis, the bottom line with Mr. Evans is that sound.

So, yeah... I guess I dig Bill Evans. I'm probably the wrong guy to answer that question, because I love the guy.

I've done it before here, but I'll do it again... I highly recommend that you get a copy of Bill's recorded session with Marian McPartland on her "Piano Jazz" program. He talks a bit about his interaction with Scotty, Eddie Gomez, and Marc Johnson. It's a glimpse, but a nice thumbnail sketch of Bill Evans and the way he did stuff. Every time I listen to it, i wish it went on for about ten more hours!

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

There are far more qualified people to really dig into Bill Evans than I. Paul, where are you??

One thing Bill would do was omit the root in the left hand;playing the upper partials. Although he had a strong left hand, I think he left more room for the bassist to roam.

I occasionally play with a pianist who steps all over me, leaving very little room. Some guys are very rigid, others loose. That's what I'm saying.

Paul Warmbottom is probably enjoying a nice Valium right now, wondering what the **** I'm talking about.

[Sam Sherry]

"Essentialism" probably isn't the right word for Mr. Evans' work. There was much that went well past the essential from the rhythmic and harmonic standpoints. The 'essence' of these compositions was usually to accompany belters in Broadway shows and that is not where the Trio went.

Mr. Evans was talking about 'overplaying' as in "shredding." Compare Jim Hall and Jimmy Bruno (not, of course, to imply that Mr. Bruno "overplays" but simply to illustrate 'shredding chops' using a current exemplar).

Bill's playing was about an encyclopedic knowledge of 20th-century harmony, listening really hard and leaving rhythmic space for interplay. It was also about acknowledging that everybody on the stand knew where the "one" was so there was no need to beat the "one" into the ground. The latter notion was particularly eye-opening in 1961, so they say.

Look for PW's posts on Evans -- he's forgotten more than I'll ever know on the topic.

Have a safe NYE and a great year, all.

[relacey]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

I've done it before here, but I'll do it again... I highly recommend that you get a copy of Bill's recorded session with Marian McPartland on her "Piano Jazz" program. He talks a bit about his interaction with Scotty, Eddie Gomez, and Marc Johnson. It's a glimpse, but a nice thumbnail sketch of Bill Evans and the way he did stuff. Every time I listen to it, i wish it went on for about ten more hours!

You can find the piano jazz series on emusic including the one with Bill Evans.

[Marcus Johnson]

That last post of mine was probably useless to you, ameshokostreet, since it didn't even address Scott LaFaro's role in that band. I get carried away. Scott was a one-time event. We discuss him here the way you might see Jimi Hendrix discussed on a rock guitar forum; groundbreaking innovator, prodigious natural talent, who left us way too early, and still makes us all wonder what might have been if he'd stuck around awhile longer.

[98mtd]

Scott LaFaro's revolutionary playing included extensive use of the thumb position on stand up bass, which is difficult considering intonation. Before him, no one really displayed the full range of the bass and played the conventional bass notes. Jimmie Blanton used thumb position on his famous duets with Duke Ellington, but Scott's roll with Bill Evans required a more improvisational roll which led him to exploit the upper registers.

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by Kevin Hsieh

paging Paul Warburton

Here I be, honey..
To the O.P.....My name is Paul Warburton. Paul, PW, 'unca PW, Warmbottom, Wallbutton and a host of other more colorful, but equally disrespectful names....I had the fabulous honor of working with Bill for a VERY short time. However, my friends here are doing just fine with your questions. I tend to be over bearing on the subject of Bill, so i'm gonna sit back and enjoy this from another perspective.
By the way, your questions ARE great and refreshing......

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

...... However, my friends here are doing just fine with your questions..................

Gosh Unca Pawee, do you really mean it? Do ya?

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

I tend to be over bearing on the subject of Bill

Eh.. I dunno... I like hearing the anecdotal stuff. Keep it coming.

My tendency was always to deify Bill, because my only reference point was the recordings which meant so much to me in my formative years. That's why I really appreciate the McPartland show; through it all, what really comes out is Bill's humility and graciousness. I particularly love the part at the end where he discusses his early days playing casuals, putting on the smelly tux for a few dollars. I can relate to that! It's just great to hear him speak about his career, completely unaffected, yet always very clear about his concepts and his personal direction. I wish I'd met him.

[Treyzer]

This is a great thread and some great input guys. Yes, I to am an unapolegetic Bill Evans Fan as well as a Scott LaFaro freak. Marcus said it about Bill Evans but you could also say it about Scotty. To paraphrase, You could cop all his licks, marry into his family,....whatever and still not really be appraoch his genius. Others have taken what he did and further advanced how the bass could be played in jazz, but Scott blazed the trail. There will never be another Scott. IMHO

For the OP, The other thing to really check out is jazz bass playing pre Scott LaFaro and then check out those famous Bill Evans Trio recordings. Scott truly unlocked what the possibilities could be for the double bass in the jazz idiom.

The funny thing is that if you aren't grounded in the basics, you really can't understand and/or appreciate just how groundbreaking and sophisticated his work with Bill Evans was. As a bassist, you have to be able to be a heck of a good time keeper and solid 4 (walking bass) player before you can successfully cut the time up as much as Scott did while he was comping behind Bill. Without a great time feel, all of his conversational improv playing would have been meaningless. It would jus be "Licks are for kids".

I'm sure we've all seen and heard drummers try and play like Elvin Jones or Tony Williams who just sound like they're rushing all the time, no groove. Same with bassists, if the time and feel don't come together, "It don't mean a thing....(you guys know the rest)

As Unka Paul has said on many occasions in other posts, those Bill Evans, Scott LaFaro & Paul Motian recordings had an impact on almost all jazz players world wide. In my view, Scott created a style of playing that was pretty difficult and he made it seem effortless.

OK.. Thanks... I'm done

[Marcus Johnson]

For a long time, my only exposure to Scott LaFaro was on the Bill Evans sessions. So it was a revelation for me to hear his work on "The Arrival Of Victor Feldman" (among other recordings). On that album,he displays rock solid time and great walking lines. Sometimes people dismiss Scott as an embellisher, because of his role in the Evans trio. Some of these other record dates show that he was a complete bassist and more than an able rhythm section player.