Carlos Henriques on Bill Cosby show

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

Well, ok. I'm gonna also pose the question: What if Wynton didn't do what he did, rise to the occasion of trying to fill the gap between the American public and Jazz? He has done a lot to raise the profile of jazz and, at his best, the pride and accomplishment of that music, worldwide, for people of all races and creeds. I'm not sure if there was another personality out there strong enough and willing to take those reins.

As far as I am concerned, there was a ton of great, great music during that period - much of it happening DESPITE Wyton's effort to stop it.
We could get a pretty long list going here but just the Hat Art and Soul Note labels catalog's during that time are enough.

He pretty much just raised awareness for music that had already happened and built an audience and education structure for that.
He was antithetical to ANY development of Jazz forms - I mean - that was his deal!
Purely in terms of music he was as much of a setback as anything else.
For short list, the guys in Trio 3 - Reggie Workmann, Oliver Lake and Andrew Cyrille have done more for the music's development than Wynton for sure.

The point being there was a tremendous cost for what he did.

[Paul Warburton]

At one point in this thread I was hoping we could get into Ethnomusicology. I sense a couple members of the board have looked into this really interesting study of music, where it came from, who were the people that were instrumental it's history and most importantly how humans of every race, color and creed were involved in that process from the cave man to today.
I thought of starting a thread about it a while back and if everybody could act like a grown up, I think it could be a good subject for discussion.

EDIT: One night at Shelly's Manne Hole. Three guys off of the list:
Vic Feldman, Chuck Israels and Shelly Manne.
"Burned down the bandstand". Quote: Bill Evans.
Source: Me.

[MR PC]

Originally Posted by jtlownds

Caught the Bill Cosby, Mark Twain Award show on PBS last night. The Wynton Marsallis band played on the show, and featured our own Carlos Henriques. Very tasteful and well executed lines. Carlos, what bass were you using on that show? It looked huge on TV.

Originally Posted by BAJO

Hey TB, thank you all for checking me out!! The Bass I am using is a 1895 Hawkes french Concert model. It is very big and I have been really trying hard to get use to it!!

A very respectful and harmless question with a friendly and straightforward answer.

[Marcus Johnson]

Thanks, PC, I almost forgot what we were talking about.

I've derailed a few threads in my time, as you all know. But the way this one has gone just makes me sad. Mostly for myself, because now, when I see the current Marsalis band, this thread will be back in my mind, like a nasty little itch. I love the way Carlos plays, and I like what Wynton is doing now a great deal.

But I can't unsee what I saw here. Much of it has nothing to do with the reasons I play music. Some of it makes me just want to go take a shower or three. Some of it makes me want to take a break from TB,

None of which should matter to anyone who posts here.

[BAJO]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

I think you're misunderstanding something here, Carlos.

No, I think I'm pretty sure of what I meant

[BAJO]

Originally Posted by hdiddy

Meh... I'd just close this thread now and nip it in the bud. Unless Wynton comes out with a public apology or a total clarification of the context he said it in, what he said is indefensible. The thread can only go downward from here. I'd rather not have to see a friend of said accuser try to defend his buddies comments, and reading from what he's already written, I'm not expecting much here either. It puts him in an uncomfortable position. Sorry BAJO, you play great but sometimes your posts make no sense.

Alright, explain which one doesn't make sense and I will try to put in a different term

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

Thanks, PC, I almost forgot what we were talking about.

I've derailed a few threads in my time, as you all know. But the way this one has gone just makes me sad. Mostly for myself, because now, when I see the current Marsalis band, this thread will be back in my mind, like a nasty little itch. I love the way Carlos plays, and I like what Wynton is doing now a great deal.

As it should! I also love Carlos' playing AND like what Wynton does now, but we just can't re-write history.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by BAJO

That last quote is so true

Carlos, just to be clear, can you requote specifically what you were referring to when you said "That last quote is so true?" I think this is what people are confused about. Since PW's post contained two sections, your statement above could be interpreted as agreeing with two very different ideas:

1) "When I came up playing real jazz in the late 50's and early 60's I don't remember any real racial issues in the music itself. The vibe was pretty innocent. If you sounded good, and could hang in with players with more mileage behind them, you were in. If you could play, it was obvious. Others could hear where you were coming from by the things you played. If there was some Lester in there, some Bird, some Paul Desmond, whatever. That defied any kind of racism. They even went a step further. If you could play, you were a good cat." (Paraphrase) ---> Your skin color doesn't matter if you can play.

2) "Blacks have been held back for so many years because the music business is controlled by 'people who read the Torah' ". (Paraphrase) ---> The music business in general and jazz in particular have been seriously discriminated against and damaged by Jewish people trying to control and exploit other races to make money.


I think you'll agree that these are two very different points of view, and that it would be helpful to clarify this point. Please help us do this.

[BAJO]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

Carlos, just to be clear, can you requote specifically what you were referring to when you said "That last quote is so true?" I think this is what people are confused about. Since PW's post contained two sections, your statement above could be interpreted as agreeing with two very different ideas:

1) "When I came up playing real jazz in the late 50's and early 60's I don't remember any real racial issues in the music itself. The vibe was pretty innocent. If you sounded good, and could hang in with players with more mileage behind them, you were in. If you could play, it was obvious. Others could hear where you were coming from by the things you played. If there was some Lester in there, some Bird, some Paul Desmond, whatever. That defied any kind of racism. They even went a step further. If you could play, you were a good cat." (Paraphrase) ---> Your skin color doesn't matter if you can play.

2) "Blacks have been held back for so many years because the music business is controlled by 'people who read the Torah' ". (Paraphrase) ---> The music business in general and jazz in particular have been seriously discriminated against and damaged by Jewish people trying to control and exploit other races to make money.


I think you'll agree that these are two very different points of view, and that it would be helpful to clarify this point. Please help us do this.

Thank you, I was mainly talking about the 2nd{ Blacks have been held back for so many years because the music business is controlled by 'people who read the Torah'}

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Thanks for the clarification. I'll let it speak for itself.