E. Spalding overrated? - Page 2

**mjac28** · #21 02-08-2013, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christopherogut

I'd think that picking up bass at 14, getting into Berklee on a scholarship around 16, and becoming Berklee's youngest teacher at 20 is pretty dang impressive. Her second album, Esperanza, is incredible from start to finish. She's energetic, beautiful, and has an awesome 'fro. She certainly isn't overrated in my book!

That certainly sounds overrated to me

flyingmarcel · #22 02-09-2013, 06:28 AM

I saw her play last year with Joe Lovano's band - I'd challenge anyone who suggests that she is somehow departing from Jazz to give this music a serious listen...

And why shouldn't she be allowed to write/perform/create any and all types of music she may find interesting - where does it say you can't be a serious jazz musician if you also record other types of music...

bassbombs84 · #23 02-09-2013, 06:39 AM

Troll???

seriously, she is the best bass talent in years.

kellyrojo · #24 02-09-2013, 06:51 AM

She's a beast...which is the opposite of overrated

Clef_de_fa · #25 02-09-2013, 07:03 AM

Her music does nothing for me so I never bought any of her CD.

From what I see and understand of what said in the OP, it looks like many other "jazz" artist. Those artist playing very close to what would be considered "jazz pop" or straight pop music. We saw the same thing happened to Norah Jones.

I have a hard time believing an artist would change their style of music just to make more money or because they have listened to a producer who want to make a pop star with a lot of money and if it isn't her it will be someone else. If it is the case a lot of people are sell out and doesn't care at all about music as an art form ... they only sees it as a mean to an end which is sad and disgust me. If it is the artist who want that and no one else tell them what to do ... then ok ... boring but ok it is her choice.

Clef_de_fa · #26 02-09-2013, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by christopherogut

I'd think that picking up bass at 14, getting into Berklee on a scholarship around 16, and becoming Berklee's youngest teacher at 20 is pretty dang impressive. Her second album, Esperanza, is incredible from start to finish. She's energetic, beautiful, and has an awesome 'fro. She certainly isn't overrated in my book!

This doesn't mean her music is nice to listen to or that she has interesting ideas. It justs mean she is good at music.

Also if the only good things you have to say about her is : "she's energetic, beautiful and has an awesome 'fro." 2 of the 3 mentionned are about her look ... then she is only that, a beautiful girl that has nothing else to offert and she is marketed as such ...

M Sterling · #27 02-09-2013, 07:31 AM

I understand you not liking the last two recordings, you are entitled to your opinion.

It is my belief that if an artist like Esperanza actually does break the mainstream, it is a win for real musicians and bass players everywhere. No matter if the recording is jazz or not-as-much-jazz. We don't need her to sit around a blow jazz chops for the rest of her life. She could actually bring musicianship and talent back to the forefront. I hope she continues to make crossover-ish recordings, and stealing Grammy's from "the Beib", then it might give the rest of us an opening. Listen to Radio Music Society and then check out the latest K$sha single, and tell me it's not the truth.

Paul Warburton · #28 02-09-2013, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KUNGfuSHERIFF

H-a-t-e-r-a-i-d. Noun, refers to people who talk trash without ever having accomplished very much themselves. See: everyone Paul Warburton and Ed Fuqua ever slapped down.
I don't know Esperanza Spalding personally, and I'll probably never meet her. I really have no dog in this fight. But it bugs me when people cry and moan about how an artist they admired when they were obscure gains a wider audience, became successful, and became a target for slander by people who ain't doing ****, just talk on the Internet about doing ****. I came out of punk rock, it's an epidemic and has been for decades.
The woman is talented, and she deserves to eat and have a place to live, no matter how random sockpuppets on the Internet feel about her new album. Human dignity, etc.
So tell me, why is the OP's opinion holy and my response to his opinion "ridiculously juvenile?"

+1.

And, fu, when threads like this come up around here filled with negativity about great and successful players, it reminds me of "jazz critics" of old, who made their living critcizing jazz musicians, and this tune written and performed by my mentor, the great bassist, Red Mitchell, who wrote this tune called "How you sound". He sings and plays the piano on this one, based on one note......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDJkIXR0RaY

Yesiree, kindly, i'd love to hear y'all play.

Etienned · #29 02-09-2013, 08:10 AM

The Black Gold videoclip from last year's month of Black History made me stop listening to her. I know it's silly to skip on a artist for so little but I teach History and I always try to include as much informations and activities concerning 'popular' History (women, immigration, minorities, prisoners, etc).

The whole "they teach nothing about us in school" record seems to me like an acid reflux from a few decades back and I'm sure that many teachers are entitled to more respect than being depicted with such a broad brush.

So yeah, I can understand how some people change their opinion on an artist based on his/her choices and on the projects he/she is working on, even if the artist in question is talented.

Bassist4Eris · #30 02-09-2013, 08:19 AM

"Radio Music Society" a sellout? Dig the rhythmic inventiveness on the chorus to "Crowned and Kissed", or the chromaticism in the hook to "Radio Song". Listen to the socially conscious lyrics to songs like "Land of the Free" (unjust incarceration), "Black Gold" (self image of young minorities) or "Vague Suspicions" (the role of the citizenry in supporting war). Just because the jazz purists don't like it doesn't make it a sellout.

Yes, she's obviously aiming for crossover appeal. That's apparent in the disc's title. But she's aiming for it with her artistic integrity intact.

To the OP: this thread would perhaps have attracted less negativity if "overrated" wasn't in your title. I don't think anyone's denying her talent, even if some don't like the direction her career is taking.

Bassist4Eris · #31 02-09-2013, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etienned

The Black Gold videoclip from last year's month of Black History made me stop listening to her. I know it's silly to skip on a artist for so little but I teach History and I always try to include as much informations and activities concerning 'popular' History (women, immigration, minorities, prisoners, etc).

The whole "they teach nothing about us in school" record seems to me like an acid reflux from a few decades back and I'm sure that many teachers are entitled to more respect than being depicted with such a broad brush.

So yeah, I can understand how some people change their opinion on an artist based on his/her choices and on the projects he/she is working on, even if the artist in question is talented.

I didn't interpret those lyrics like that. Young minorities are still stereotyped as thugs and criminals. That must have a detrimental effect on their self-esteem. This is a song intended to counter that. I don't see any criticism of teachers in these lyrics.

"They teach nothing about us in school" isn't even a paraphrase of anything in that song. I challenge you to prove me wrong.

Bassist4Eris · #32 02-09-2013, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjac28

I also love the fact that people keep focusing on her looks I would tend to believe she could run circles around at half the people on this forum,

This. Except you're being too kind with "half the people". 99% is probably more like it.

Etienned · #33 02-09-2013, 08:32 AM

Bassist4eris, did you watch the clip ?
The father picking kids at school intro ?

KUNGfuSHERIFF · #34 02-09-2013, 08:34 AM

Hey PDubs, who was it that wrote that song "If Charlie Parker Was a Gunfighter, There'd Be a Whole Lot of Dead Copycats?" Was that Mingus? Seems to me that the sentiment applies in this instance.

My last word on the subject is this: I'm no fanboy, but from the little I know about Ms. Spalding, compared to her peers I'd be comfortable holding her up as a role model for my daughter -- a talented and successful young woman of color finding her way in the world through a mean, ugly industry but who manages to carry herself as a lady. That's cool, anyone's opinion on her latest artistic tangent aside.

cnltb · #35 02-09-2013, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimmik

When Esperanza first came on the scene, I was wild about her. Finally, a new recording artist that I actually cared about. When "Junjo" came out, I was convinced the gods had finally bestowed a new genius on a country long bereft of musical talent--at least any that could sell records.

But her next two releases have me asking if I jumped the gun. "Chamber Music Society" with all the promise that I saw in the title when I found it at a record store was a disappointment when I brought it home. "Radio Music Society" even more so.

Having a very fine voice seems to be her undoing. They seem to be trying to turn her into a diva. "Oh, goody, she can sing! Great, now we can market her as a singer instead of a bassist." Why? Obviously because singers sell and bassists generally don't.

America is hung up on singers. Enough already. Show me instrumental talent. Esperanza has talent in spades but it seems to be taking a backseat. Her basswork on "Radio Music Society" is not that impressive. Someone with 2 years under a decent instructor could play that stuff. It didn't close to matching her sheer brilliance on her first two releases.

Now, she's young and maybe she's experimenting and all that but I DO hope she gets back to bass-ics and starts playing real jazz again. I want to hear more bass and less diva crap. We don't have enough divas already???

I watched the Superbowl and saw Alicia Keyes doing the national anthem. Admittedly, I wouldn't know Alicia Keyes from a rusty bucket of rainwater so I hope she's a better pianist than what I saw. Once again, it seems to be all about voice. She certainly can sing but her piano playing made her look like a complete hack. I can play what she played and I'm not by any stretch a pianist (not really that much of a bassist to be honest).

Esperanza seems to be going down that same road now. I certainly hope I'm wrong but I don't have a good feeling about this. The public doesn't know squat about jazz and in order for her to keep selling, she'll have to get away from jazz and that will be a great loss.

I realize I'm committing a mortal sin to a lot of members of TB. We're supposed to rave about Esperanza Spalding. Well, I am raving: GET BACK ON THAT BASS AND PLAY JAZZ!

Over rated?
I don't know, but wouldn't say so.
Over exposed?
I think Yes.
I for one, appreciating what she does but not so much liking much of it, won't need to hear from her for a while I recon.

Bassist4Eris · #36 02-09-2013, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etienned

Bassist4eris, did you watch the clip ?
The father picking kids at school intro ?

I couldn't find it on youtube. My comments were based strictly on the lyrics to the song. I'd be interested in watching the video if you can provide a link.

FWIW, I did find the following video, hoping it was the one you referenced. It clearly isn't, but it does feature her explaining the meaning of the song in her own words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZyLLJVB6sM

Etienned · #37 02-09-2013, 09:07 AM

I can agree with her.
But I assure you that the clip intro seemed a bit too much of a drive-by diss against the teachers who are either ignorant or new world order propagandist.

But yeah, Spalding is still light years over Rihanna in terms of role model.

Bassist4Eris · #38 02-09-2013, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etienned

Bassist4eris, did you watch the clip ?
The father picking kids at school intro ?

Was it this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nppb01xhfe0

Etienned · #39 02-09-2013, 09:15 AM

Yup, that's the one. I know some might not agree with me about this so I will stop hijacking this thread with my hurt feelings : )

Bassist4Eris · #40 02-09-2013, 09:15 AM

OK, I just watched it. As a teacher who is clearly trying to do things right, I can see how you might take that personally. And perhaps the gripe is a few decades old, I don't know. I graduated in '91, not knowing much more about Africa than those kids. Things might be different now, I can't say. I still have a hard time hearing that song as anything but uplifting and positive. But I respect your opinion.