E. Spalding overrated?

[bassbombs84]

troll confirmed

[Phil Smith]

Overated??? Come on! How many bassist you know can even talk while they play let alone sing and sound great?

What I like about Esperanza is that she's got her own vision and her own sound. The word sellout doesn't really apply, if you listen to her CD Radio Music Society you'll notice that it's kind of pop but then again it isn't, it's kind of R&B but it isn't, it's kind of Jazz but it isn't; she's blazing her own trail here.

We actually need more artists like her to open things up and move the art along.

[Dimmik]

"Considering that she recently co-headlined the Monterey Jazz Festival and appeared at the opening gala concert for the SFJazz Center, I'd say she's a qualified jazz artist, opinions to the contrary notwithstanding."

So what. People think Adele's a jazz singer too. Apparently, we're passing that label out like candy these days. And why not? Like every other worthwhile form of music, jazz is drying up.

[eddododo]

Hmm I rather think ms. spalding is unquestionably 'legit'

Nott only could most of you naysayers not learn her solos, let alone improvise them on either instrument, but shes played bass for less time than many of us.

Not to mention her voice..


I always get a little bit ranty on this kind of thread but I find it asinine to spend.any time discussing opinions about professionals and their legitimacy to mask insecurity/frustration/delusion



although I have a feeling esperenza will not be offended: she's too busy playing great gig with great musicians to read this

[Dimmik]

Originally Posted by fmoore200

Maybe she can serve as a sort of "gate way" into jazz.

Much like you saw Stockhausen and Sun Ra's similarities, maybe a young person introduced to Spalding's music will notice the similarities between her and Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers' music.

Do you honestly hear any such similarities? Even when she was doing jazz, it was along the Latin vein especially bossa nova.

They keep calling adele a jazz singer. Do you see any of her fans rushing out to buy Lester Young CDs?

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Summary:

- One poster doesn't like what a famous talent is doing with said talent, and is prepared to supply a "yeah, but" to any comment defending the accomplishment of said artist.

- Everyone else thinks she's proven a lot early in her career and has earned the right to play whatever kind of music she wants without being concerned what random people on the internet might think.

Does that about cover it? Fascinating a plot as that is, if that's all there is, why not stop here?

[Turxile]

Just the sheer number and diversity of opinions and posts in this thread within a few days goes to show how successful she is.

[fmoore200]

Originally Posted by Dimmik

Do you honestly hear any such similarities? Even when she was doing jazz, it was along the Latin vein especially bossa nova.

They keep calling adele a jazz singer. Do you see any of her fans rushing out to buy Lester Young CDs?

I don't keep statistics on the purchasing trends of Adele fans, but I wouldn't rule it out.

Do you think you are the only musician/person who has taken a path from electric or pop or whatever type of music to jazz? I for one grew up in a family more into pop, r&b, rap, and rock but one day I listened to a record by cream and started getting interested in improvised music.

Later that week I picked up an art Blakey and an Ornette Coleman record.

[Shakin-Slim]

I wouldn't say she enjoys singing pop more than jazz. She's still dedicated to the art, but does that mean she must do it for every album? Do you think every Glasper album from now will be with the Experiment?

She's still playing in Joe Lovano's 'Us Five', last year appeared on Jack DeJohnette's 'Sound Travels' and is still playing great gigs. So the music on her last album is more approachable. How does that detract anything from the album? The musicianship on Radio is killer. Sure, the lyrics sound a bit contrived at times, but she was aiming for a pop album. To me that doesn't say she's trying to become 'popular' or a 'sell-out', only that she wishes to express a love for pop music, particularly that of the era when she was growing up. That cover of 'I Can't Help It' is amazing.

Nobody here has a problem that you don't dig her last 2 albums, because taste is taste, but to imply that it's a negative mark on her as a musician/artist/brand is pretty silly and rather disrespectful. I don't know many people who have discovered Ms Spalding through her latest album, but I know many who have followed her career and enjoy its twists and turns.

Personally, I think Chamber Music Society is her greatest album, but every one is different. She is trying new things on each one. On that album she worked on writing for such a small group, creating intimate and very sincere music. Some may say the sincerity is lacking on the latest album, but look at what she has done: worked on her electric bass skills (a relatively new instrument for her), shown that she can operate vocally and instrumentally within a very different dynamic and can write for much larger groups with more horns etc.

Take each album for what it is. Don't like it? There's no issue there, but I'm sure she loves it.

[fmoore200]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

I don't own any of her albums, But I've always been impressed with her talent and performance level every single time I've heard her perform. I don't really care what she chooses to do with the combination of talent and hard work that has brought her to the point where she currently. She's earned the right to do whatever she wants with it, and I think she should do just that. I like to think I would do the same.

And the rest of this is just my opinion, BUT: the whole notion of the "sellout" artist immediately brings the word "copout" to my mind, but applied to the critic rather than the artist in question. To me, music is simply music, and styles and genres are just artificial lines drawn across the landscape. Just this week, I saw the Punch brothers (basically bluegrass meets virtuosity) play a beautiful and amazing show on Tuesday, saw the Jeff Coffin Mu'tet on Wednesday, played a "let's mix jazz standards with a 'free jazz' approach" trio gig on Wednesday night, then watched a documentary on the making of the "Goat Rodeo sessions" CD last night before going to bed. To me, "good music" is "good music", and the only distinction to be made among it is "good music that I relate to and therefore go out of my way to expose myself to" versus "I don't really dig that, but I have to admit it's well done and props to those who did it".

I currently play in an indie soul/jazz/folk/jam/pop group peopled with some of the greatest musicians i know. We're releasing an album in the next few months, and if it were to take off and keep us all busy touring and playing that kind of music for a while because it was what was happening at the time, we'd all be totally fine with it. If somebody at that point were to comment on a goodly number of the local scene's prominent jazz talent "selling out and forsaking jazz", we'd laugh, roll our eyes, and say "get while the getting's good" and go right on with it. I personally kind of hope that happens, because I'm excited about the music and I believe wholeheartedly in it. If anyone doesn't like it, they should simply not listen to it.

Keep us posted Chris! Look forward to hearing the new CD. Sounds interesting!

[Phil Smith]

Originally Posted by Dimmik

So what. People think Adele's a jazz singer too. Apparently, we're passing that label out like candy these days. And why not? Like every other worthwhile form of music, jazz is drying up.

By every conceivable measure Esperanza is a Jazz artist and true to the history of Jazz she's bringing something new.

Oh, I forgot to mention, to determine if she's a Jazz artist, you just need to ask 3 questions:

1. Does the person play the bass?
2. Is it an upright bass?
3. Is the person African American or do they look like they are?

Bingo! Jazz Artist.

[Floyd Eye]

You've seen her right? I don't care if she can even play bass, I'll buy tickets to her show.

[Fire-Starter]

Originally Posted by Phil Smith

By every conceivable measure Esperanza is a Jazz artist and true to the history of Jazz she's bringing something new.

Oh, I forgot to mention, to determine if she's a Jazz artist, you just need to ask 3 questions:

1. Does the person play the bass?
2. Is it an upright bass?
3. Is the person African American or do they look like they are?

Bingo! Jazz Artist.

That should make us all stop and think for a minute. I like it.

[Etienned]

You have to look black to play jazz ?

[RS]

I'm staying out of the sell-out part of the debate, but I have to say when I say her Radio Music Tour as part of the Tri-C jazzfest and coming from being astounded by the music on her 2nd CD and clips of her live on youtube, I was underwhelmed. Yes, she can play circles around me with one arm, sings like a angel, isn't bad to look at, etc., but I didn't think the show was worth the $30.

Flame away.

[thesaddpenguin]

Her music is nowhere near overrated. Her debut record has some phenomenal tracks on it! "I Know You Know" has an undeniably groovy bass line, under which she is singing a sexy melody. On the same record... she sings Body and Soul in Portuguese! I highly recommend anyone to go dig into her debut record.

[Dimmik]

Originally Posted by Etienned

You have to look black to play jazz ?

Yeah, amazing, isn't it? I'm getting slammed for criticizing her sudden lack of chops and people are making racist remarks about her and getting pats on the back. Yep, no bias going on here.

[Dimmik]

Originally Posted by Shakin-Slim

I wouldn't say she enjoys singing pop more than jazz. She's still dedicated to the art, but does that mean she must do it for every album?

Ok, suppose Charlie Parker decided he's not going to play jazz every album. He's going to play little pop songs with his sax for a few albums and maybe he'll come back to jazz at some unspecified future point. What would his legacy be to us today? Serious jazz artist or dabbler?

Suppose Mingus decided in the 60s that he's decided to get away from jazz and do bubblegum music for the Buddah label. What would his legacy be today?

What if Oscar Peterson decided he wanted to start making records that sounded like Bent Fabric? How much would your opinion of him change?

This consistent answer I'm getting of "She can do whatever she wants to" is bizarre. No ****, Sherlock, she sure can. That does not answer the question of WHY is she doing it? She has her supporters now but 30 years down the road, the opinions are going to be far harsher. She's going to be regarded in jazz as an almost-ran, an honorable mention.

No, she isn't a serious jazz artist. She can't be.

[GM60466]

I heard her play live. She is the real deal. I'm happy for her success. The rest of us have to work harder..

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by Dimmik

Ok, suppose Charlie Parker decided he's not going to play jazz every album. He's going to play little pop songs with his sax for a few albums and maybe he'll come back to jazz at some unspecified future point. What would his legacy be to us today? Serious jazz artist or dabbler?

Suppose Mingus decided in the 60s that he's decided to get away from jazz and do bubblegum music for the Buddah label. What would his legacy be today?

What if Oscar Peterson decided he wanted to start making records that sounded like Bent Fabric? How much would your opinion of him change?

This consistent answer I'm getting of "She can do whatever she wants to" is bizarre. No ****, Sherlock, she sure can. That does not answer the question of WHY is she doing it? She has her supporters now but 30 years down the road, the opinions are going to be far harsher. She's going to be regarded in jazz as an almost-ran, an honorable mention.

No, she isn't a serious jazz artist. She can't be.

Summary: an anonymous internet armchair critic doesn't like ES's more recent offerings, and apparently won't stop posting until somebody agrees. Nobody agrees. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Done.