Israel Crosby

Andy Allen · #1 12-25-2004, 07:09 PM

I noticed that I'm still regularly listening to Ahmad Jamal's "Live at The Pershing and Spotlight clubs", even after all the time I've had it.

(Amazon link here: http://tinyurl.com/6zyv9 )

It seems that he gets very little recognition - I don't see him mentioned in many of the "Best Players" threads here.

Back to the point: are there any other great recordings from him that I should look out for?

Mark Carlsen · #2 12-25-2004, 08:11 PM

I would do a search on All Music Guide and see if there are any other recordings.I believe he made one or two records w. George Shearing.
Funny you bring him up as Ray Brown said he got alot of idea's from Israel's bass lines [Along w. Blanton,and Pettiford}

Ed Fuqua · #3 12-27-2004, 10:58 AM

There were a few earlier records, but the Jamal stuff has to be a high point and then he died. My recollection is there weren't a lot of solos, but his walking lines were wonderful little melodies.

But, besides me, you don't hear a lot about Sonny Dallas either.

Paul Warburton · #4 12-28-2004, 05:03 AM

Ahmed always left so much open for Israel to fill too.
I read somewhere that George Shearing and Israel had an extremely close relationship.
Ed, What do you recommend for some Sonny Dallas?

Ed Fuqua · #5 12-28-2004, 10:13 AM

The best record is prolly MOTION under Lee Konitz name. If you can get the boxed 3 CD reissue, grab it. Disc One is pretty much what was released on vinyl, plus out takes. Sonny and Elvin Jones. The other two discs were prolly recorded as rehearsals and instead of Elvin you get the drummer that was Sonny's partner in Lennie's band, Nick Stabulas. There's lots of false starts, things where it sounds like the only mic that's on is Lee's etc. Still very swinging, but not as edgy as the session with Elvin (who worked with Lennie when he first got to New York).

There are a couple of records with Lennie that are nice and a couple with Lee and Warne that are nice. But MOTION is the best example that I've heard so far. Plus the format really lets you hear those quarter note melodies.

pedro · #6 12-28-2004, 11:52 AM

Thanks for the link airbass. That's some great swinging music. Love it.

klepto · #7 12-28-2004, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Lee Konitz Sonny and Elvin Jones.

motion!

chief bogan · #8 12-28-2004, 03:00 PM

Some posts have mentioned Israel Crosby with George Shearing. The album in question is called Jazz Moments. It's a really nice album, which was put out a few years ago as a CD. A particularly nice feature is that Israel takes a few solos on it, which he rarely does with Amhad Jamal. What I really like about his lines is that he manages to free himself from bass lines constructed around roots and fifths, using thirds and large intervals in his lines, and yet they sound great and work really well with the piano. Apparently Ron Carter was very influenced by the way he constructed his bass lines. Check out the following www.goldsby.de/IsraelCrosby.html, where John Goldsby gives a run down on his career.

pedro · #9 12-28-2004, 03:43 PM

Wow thanks again for another interesting read. Will try to head to the library and see if they have any of this stuff.

Paul Warburton · #10 12-28-2004, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief bogan

Some posts have mentioned Israel Crosby with George Shearing. The album in question is called Jazz Moments. It's a really nice album, which was put out a few years ago as a CD. A particularly nice feature is that Israel takes a few solos on it, which he rarely does with Amhad Jamal. What I really like about his lines is that he manages to free himself from bass lines constructed around roots and fifths, using thirds and large intervals in his lines, and yet they sound great and work really well with the piano. Apparently Ron Carter was very influenced by the way he constructed his bass lines. Check out the following www.goldsby.de/IsraelCrosby.html, where John Goldsby gives a run down on his career.

Good stuff! Thanks chief.....
I remember one of those tunes from the Pershing record where Israel keeps repeating John Lewis' Golden Striker to great effect.
We had that thread a few months back about musical quotes..
These cuts are full of 'em. And Vernell Fournier has always been one of my favorite trio drummers!
One more tid-bit.....One of Ahmads biggest fans was Miles Davis.

Andy Allen · #11 12-28-2004, 06:36 PM

Thanks, Cheif - some good info there. I'm looking for the George Shearing CD and also Ahmad Jamal's " Cross Country Tour: 1958-1961" locally (I'll resort to Amazon later if necessary).

Ed - although it seems Israel rarely soloed with Ahmad Jamal, allmusic.com has this to say: "In 1935, when he was 16, Crosby took one of the first full-length bass solos on record ("Blues for Israel") during a pickup date led by Gene Krupa."

Not bad for 16 years old

Dig_Wilbur_Ware · #12 12-30-2004, 12:12 PM

You can hear Israel on the Edmund Hall/Charlie Christian sessions as well. "Profoundly Blue," the tune to check.

Ed Fuqua · #13 12-30-2004, 12:35 PM

Check out this link. Volume 2 has footage of the Ahmad Jamal trio with Israel and Vernel doing either two or three tunes (all I can remember are an uptempo version of DARN THAT DREAM and an 8 bar blues called AHMAD'S BLUES I think). It includes a performance by the Ben Webster Sextet with Hank Jones, George Duvivier and Papa Jo as the rhythm section and it's amazing how totally modern Ahmad's trio sounds in comparison - light, lithe, agile, open - to Webster's (or even Miles' later in the tape). Israel doesn't solo, but the walking lines and the hook up with Vernel and the use of pedals and ostinatos, it's a nice view.

Andy Allen · #14 12-30-2004, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Check out this link. Volume 2 has footage of the Ahmad Jamal trio with Israel and Vernel doing either two or three tunes (all I can remember are an uptempo version of DARN THAT DREAM and an 8 bar blues called AHMAD'S BLUES I think).

Thanks for that link, Ed - I'll be looking for that DVD set locally.

A link from the page you mentioned has this run-down of tracks:
1. The Count Basie Orchestra - The Count's Blues
2. Red Allen Octet - Wild Man Blues
3. Red Allen Octet - Rosetta
4. Thelonious Monk Trio - Blue Monk
5. Jimmy Rushing Sings The Blues - I Left My Baby
6. The Count Basie Orchestra - Dickie's Dream
7. Billy Holiday With Nine - Fine And Mellow
8. Jimmy Giuffre Trio - The Train And The River
9. Ahmad Jamal Trio - Darn That Dream
10. Ahmad Jamal Trio - Ahmad's Blues
11. Ben Webster Sextet - Chelsea Bridge
12. Ben Webster Sextet - Duke's Place
13. Miles Davis Quintet - So What
14. Gil Evans Big Band with Miles Davis Quintet - The Duke and Orchestral Sketches No.1 & No.2

It looks like Vol. 2 starts at track 9, and there's just two Ahmad Jamal tracks. I'm on the lookout for it - hope to track it down soon.

dylanjohnson · #15 01-06-2005, 08:55 PM

I have a copy of this somewhere, and from what I remember, Robert Herridge announces Jamal playing Darn That Dream, and they proceed to play a different standard, but I cant remember what it was....

Very cool... I think Israel is playing a Kay....

Dylan

**Adrian Cho** · #16 01-07-2005, 02:03 AM

The reviewer of the DVD on the page who said Gil Evan's arrangements were "stifling" is a bit of moron as far as I'm concerned! The footage of Israel Crosby on that DVD is great. Check out the huge mutant fingers on his right hand from playing without an amp!

Ed Fuqua · #17 01-07-2005, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dylanjohnson

I have a copy of this somewhere, and from what I remember, Robert Herridge announces Jamal playing Darn That Dream, and they proceed to play a different standard, but I cant remember what it was....

Very cool... I think Israel is playing a Kay....

Dylan

Naw it's DARN THAT DREAM, but medium up, they only play about 6 bars of the melody through out, and it's pretty highly arranged for the trio - pedal sections, hits etc. - next time you watch, find the key and then play just root movement of DARN...

Paul Warburton · #18 01-07-2005, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Naw it's DARN THAT DREAM, but medium up, they only play about 6 bars of the melody through out, and it's pretty highly arranged for the trio - pedal sections, hits etc. - next time you watch, find the key and then play just root movement of DARN...

Can you download this one tune or do you have to buy the DVD?
Ed, I was wondering if they did Darn in the original G key?
Dylan, also, now that you mention it, the few pics i've ever seen of IC, he was playing a laminated axe........ya never know!

Ed Fuqua · #19 01-12-2005, 11:51 AM

I'll check it out, but there's gonna be some room for tape stretch I've got an old VHS copy of a VHS tape. If it goes from F# to Ab we'll assume that they're in G....

Bruce Lindfield · #20 01-13-2005, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

The best record is prolly MOTION under Lee Konitz name. If you can get the boxed 3 CD reissue, grab it. Disc One is pretty much what was released on vinyl, plus out takes. Sonny and Elvin Jones. The other two discs were prolly recorded as rehearsals and instead of Elvin you get the drummer that was Sonny's partner in Lennie's band, Nick Stabulas. There's lots of false starts, things where it sounds like the only mic that's on is Lee's etc. Still very swinging, but not as edgy as the session with Elvin (who worked with Lennie when he first got to New York).

There are a couple of records with Lennie that are nice and a couple with Lee and Warne that are nice. But MOTION is the best example that I've heard so far. Plus the format really lets you hear those quarter note melodies.

I remember you recommending this before and also my regular Jazz teacher (an Alto Player) recommended I got this - he mentioned how he had the 3 disc set - but it's very difficult to find in Europe. After years of looking, I finally spotted a single CD Japanese import. in a specialist shop in London - Mole Jazz!!