Ron Carter and Jim Hall sound description

[Samie]

Ok,

I have heard a lot of talk on DB sound: old sound, modernd sound, thump etc.

I have never been quite sure what people were talking about, so maybe with this example you can help me out.

How would you describe Ron's Bass in those live duo's with Jim Hall?

Woody?

[Marcus Johnson]

On "Live At Village West", his sound is not particularly woody. It sounds as though he'd recently changed strings, very bright. He isn't overly amplified, and he does some very nice playing on that CD.

[Samie]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

On "Live At Village West", his sound is not particularly woody. It sounds as though he'd recently changed strings, very bright. He isn't overly amplified, and he does some very nice playing on that CD.

So that is a bright tone then?

Interesting, I was thinking the oposite. i told you I was confused with all them defitions.

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by Samie

So that is a bright tone then?

Interesting, I was thinking the oposite. i told you I was confused with all them defitions.

On this particular CD, it sounds pretty bright; I don't know about any of their other duo recordings. I always have that CD in mind as something to avoid; when I know I have recording sessions coming up, I make sure that I don't have brand spankin' new strings on the bass. Ron makes it work, but in most cases, I'd prefer strings that had mellowed a bit before doing any recording. The Obligatos that I use now sound good really quickly after installation.

I've seen Ron live, and he's usually had a pretty midrange-y sound. In a trio gig with McCoy Tyner and Al Foster, he was pretty loud, and not particularly "woody" in the same sense as, say, Ray Brown or John Clayton's sound. Doesn't matter, he still sounds great.

[Ike Harris]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

I've seen Ron live, and he's usually had a pretty midrange-y sound. In a trio gig with McCoy Tyner and Al Foster, he was pretty loud, and not particularly "woody" in the same sense as, say, Ray Brown or John Clayton's sound. Doesn't matter, he still sounds great.

True - I appreciate RC and RB(and others) for what they bring to the world of playing and each fit into their respective roles as bassists with different colors to paint the picture as they see it. Wouldn't want it any other way.

Ike

[Ed Fuqua]

Rion's own description of his sound is "glow in the dark" by which he seems to mean a lot of low end AND a lot of high end.

[Samie]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

On this particular CD, it sounds pretty bright; I don't know about any of their other duo recordings. I always have that CD in mind as something to avoid; when I know I have recording sessions coming up, I make sure that I don't have brand spankin' new strings on the bass. Ron makes it work, but in most cases, I'd prefer strings that had mellowed a bit before doing any recording. The Obligatos that I use now sound good really quickly after installation.

I've seen Ron live, and he's usually had a pretty midrange-y sound. In a trio gig with McCoy Tyner and Al Foster, he was pretty loud, and not particularly "woody" in the same sense as, say, Ray Brown or John Clayton's sound. Doesn't matter, he still sounds great.

I thought it was the result of them nylon strings he uses. Not my kind of sound anyways either.

[Paul Warburton]

I agree with Marcus on this one. The first thought I had was "I bet he just changed strings." Very bright for Ron. To me, the brightest I've ever heard him. But some of the BEST i've heard him as well. I never cared for that 'puffy' direct kind of sound he used to get.

[Dudie]

Anyone heard the live-recording, with Carter and hall, called Telephone? That DB-sound is bright! And the intonation is.... . Thats sad because Ron Carter from the 60s is so good. What happend?

[Alexi David]

Originally Posted by Dudie

Anyone heard the live-recording, with Carter and hall, called Telephone? That DB-sound is bright! And the intonation is.... . Thats sad because Ron Carter from the 60s is so good. What happend?

I saw Ron last in like, what, 1994? Lincoln Center - he sounded good, but the acoustics there are another story......[odd]

I dunno what happened......maybe it was that pipe he smokes (ed?) while playing....

I tried to smoke a meerschaum "Sherlock holmes" pipe years ago while playing - I kept knocking it into the neck - hmmm it could work for hitting certain harmonics - but i Guess that's just a pipe dream I played more like Ron too. No "out" stuff, and real smooth lines. That damn pipe. No wonder, you never see gangmembers smoking a pipe. Or Plumbers. Or ......

I need coffee.....

[Dudie]

****! I was going to buy me a pipe. But now...

[Monte]

Originally Posted by Dudie

****! I was going to buy me a pipe. But now...

Ehhh, I smoke a pipe on occasion. For me, I like it to be a relaxing occasion; kicking back listening to an entire record, reading a good book, sitting on the back porch, etc.

Trying to do so while playing bass would take the enjoyment out of both activities for me.

[Damon Rondeau]

...it looks interesting to hold a pipe in your mouth like that, but if you actually are smoking it you know: a) it's burning your tongue a little bit as you puff to keep it going and the smoke keeps hitting the same little spot on your tongue; and b) you've got your jaw clamped in a death grimace just to hold the damn pipe in place.

I sometimes grind my teeth a bit while playing, I observe. Maybe Ron does too and the pipe thing feels good, who knows?

[mister_k]

I hate to get off the Pipe topic but anybody heard the Entres Amigos record? Any thoughts on Ron's sound there?

I've been rather enjoying it as anti-homicide treatment at my desk.

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by Alexi David

I saw Ron last in like, what, 1994? Lincoln Center - he sounded good, but the acoustics there are another story......[odd]
I dunno what happened......maybe it was that pipe he smokes (ed?) while playing....
I tried to smoke a meerschaum "Sherlock holmes" pipe years ago while playing - I kept knocking it into the neck - hmmm it could work for hitting certain harmonics - but i Guess that's just a pipe dream I played more like Ron too. No "out" stuff, and real smooth lines. That damn pipe. No wonder, you never see gangmembers smoking a pipe. Or Plumbers. Or ......
I need coffee.....

Alexi, you only tried to smoke a pipe 'cause Mingus did...

[Alexi David]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

Alexi, you only tried to smoke a pipe 'cause Mingus did...

No, I'm serious! I hadn't freaked out on Chazz yet!

[arto alho]

Hmm, hilariously derailed thread again....
before I figured out it was a stupid habit to smoke while playing, I smoked pipe for a while. Mainly for two reasons,
the first being that it prevented me of dropping hot ashes all over my bass and fingerboard, the latter being that I was able to read charts, other than "Smoke gets in your eyes", too.
Biting the pipe made my jaw stiff and my teeth sore, though.

R2

[Alexi David]

Originally Posted by arto alho

Hmm, hilariously derailed thread again....
before I figured out it was a stupid habit to smoke while playing, I smoked pipe for a while. Mainly for two reasons,
the first being that it prevented me of dropping hot ashes all over my bass and fingerboard, the latter being that I was able to read charts, other than "Smoke gets in your eyes", too.
Biting the pipe made my jaw stiff and my teeth sore, though.

R2

I quit smoking almost a year ago - and I was bad, so bad I made chimneys look weak........anyway, I used to take drags, or place the cigarette in the ashtray while playing open strings.....GET DEM LONG PEDAL TONES goin

It's funny getting paid for a gig these days (after quitting smoking/hard drugs/booze), cause I don't go spend the money on booze and smoke right after the gigs like the others!
Good!

[nypiano]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

I agree with Marcus on this one. The first thought I had was "I bet he just changed strings." Very bright for Ron. To me, the brightest I've ever heard him. But some of the BEST i've heard him as well. I never cared for that 'puffy' direct kind of sound he used to get.

Paul:

Which sound is this-puffy direct? To me I love the sound--and I guess-mostly the feel- he would get with my favorite drummers on 60s Blue Note records. I loved his hook up with Joe Chambers (for example Mode for Joe) and Elvin Jones. It's really kind of in the background but the approach to the beat is much less plunk, plunk very 4/4 than others-very flexible but still solid. I think the unassuming sound is part of that.

His playing later--where he was really cranking the volume and his ego when he became a leader--with the twangy DOIDLYAHH...DOIDLYAHH solos are much less appealing to me

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by nypiano

Paul:

Which sound is this-puffy direct? To me I love the sound--and I guess-mostly the feel- he would get with my favorite drummers on 60s Blue Note records. I loved his hook up with Joe Chambers (for example Mode for Joe) and Elvin Jones. It's really kind of in the background but the approach to the beat is much less plunk, plunk very 4/4 than others-very flexible but still solid. I think the unassuming sound is part of that.

His playing later--where he was really cranking the volume and his ego when he became a leader--with the twangy DOIDLYAHH...DOIDLYAHH solos are much less appealing to me

I think we're talking about the same thing Jon. The earlier stuff before he sterted using an amp was great. I loved the Miles stuff.
When, as you say, he started cranking the volume is the puffy stuff I don't like. Then, he'd go direct to the board with his pick-up in the studio. The DOIDLYAHH and all those left hand triplets that really sounded stiff to me. Red Mitchell used to do those, but they were just real musical. With Ron, it sounded more like an excercise.
And I gotta say, the piccolo bass stuff was really bad.