And what about women in orchestras?

[Malgos]

Hey.

Sometime ago I asked you about female double basstists. The answers were great and very interesting. Thank you for all of them.

Now I have another subject to think of. Last time I was auditioning to an orchestra in Europe. There were some girls but most of the participants were men. The winner I guess was one of them. I had to go so regrettably I could not check it out.

But to the question. How do you think - Why do they usually take men on? Men do really play better than women? And are better for a double bass? Or it is only 'old-fashioned' way of thinking....

bests
malgosia


PS. I am not a feminist. I like men very much

[musicman5string]

I dunno......but I can tell you that Orin O'Brien from the NY Philharmonic is one hell of a bassist.

[evan_phi]

I know of a few girls that play DB and they are really good.

one is a former teacher. she is also second chair in Symphony New Brunswick.

[moschizzle]

I dont think it's an issue of women not being suited to playing bass like men are. Rather, it seems to me that less women choose the bass in the first place... There are great women players everywhere (even right here in the Pittsburgh Symphony), it's just that if women are in the minority in the bass playing world, then they are going to win less jobs as a population.

I, personally, wish there were more females who played bass out there. (A combination of my 2 favorite things in this world: women and bass)

[Boardndave]

Hey, don't forget Orin O'Brien and Michele Saxon of the New York Phill. Orin's been with the NYP since 1966, and Michele's been there since 1970.

[Pete G]

The principal bassist in the Indianapolis Symphony is a woman. Not a person of great physical stature, I've heard, but a tremendous player.

[musicman5string]

Originally Posted by Boardndave

Hey, don't forget Orin O'Brien and Michele Saxon of the New York Phill. Orin's been with the NYP since 1966, and Michele's been there since 1970.

Really?

[Boardndave]

Yeah. I wanna say that Orin was the first woman in the NYP, but I don't remember. Oh, I see you already listed Orin, musicman... well, now you know a few new facts :P

[kraid]

Originally Posted by Boardndave

Yeah. I wanna say that Orin was the first woman in the NYP, but I don't remember. Oh, I see you already listed Orin, musicman... well, now you know a few new facts :P

Yep, Orin was the first female to join the NYPO. There was an article it when she got in inside Time magazine. They didn't even have a women's changing room when she joined.

[musicman5string]

Originally Posted by Boardndave

Yeah. I wanna say that Orin was the first woman in the NYP, but I don't remember. Oh, I see you already listed Orin, musicman... well, now you know a few new facts :P

Thanks for schooling me Boarder.....

[Malgos]

it is very interesting issue.

I also think women are OK for double bass but perhaps I am a bit biased.
I love to play and cannot understand why they do not want to take women as often as men are taken on. Perhaps we look weaker...

But it makes me always laughing when I am going with a (male) friend and I am carrying my db. Everyone who is watching this extraordinary picture is wondering - why that girl carries that guy's bass? People here and there still do not believe that women can and are able to play double bass.

Perhaps it will change. I wish it could happen soon.

greetings from gdansk
malgosia


PS.In my opinion for female bassists the changing room is not so necessary. A job is more needed...

[spideyjg]

I don't have a picture of her on DB but my friend Wanda Ortiz is first chair with the South Coast Symphony in Orange County.

She is more known as the bassist for The Iron Maidens.

Search on bassgirls.com for her profile.

Jim

[Karin]

Originally Posted by Malgos

Hey.

Sometime ago I asked you about female double basstists. The answers were great and very interesting. Thank you for all of them.

Now I have another subject to think of. Last time I was auditioning to an orchestra in Europe. There were some girls but most of the participants were men. The winner I guess was one of them. I had to go so regrettably I could not check it out.

But to the question. How do you think - Why do they usually take men on? Men do really play better than women? And are better for a double bass? Or it is only 'old-fashioned' way of thinking....

bests
malgosia


PS. I am not a feminist. I like men very much

Isn't it proved that orchestras started hiring more women in all sections after it became standard to use screens at auditions? When I got my job, I guess we were 1/3 woman auditioning, and we played behind screens twe two first rounds. The last round was between me and two guys, and then they had removed the screen. I still won even though they saw me.
I know that here in Sweden, the freelancers union has more unemployed woman than men, which I guess depends on that there are still more men than women in the orchestras, and for subbing you tend to choose someone you know... and if the section leader is a guy, he will most likely pick some other guy that he knows. But there is a growing awerness on theese issues. (I hope!)
I have met a lot of bass players of all sexes, and gender has nothing to do with playing skills.

And P.S
I AM a feminist, and I LOVE men. Jesus Christ, when will they ever learn? A feminist is someone who agrees that men are having advantages in today´s society, and who wish to see that any person regardless of their sex have equal rights.

[mcnaire2004]

It's not a issue of picking men over women as Moschizzle well put. There are WAY WAY MORE men playing bass than women. Which is why you don't see many women. To answer your question that is the reason they take men on. There are more so it's less likely for a women to get in. 8 women and 200 men audition, what's the chance of one of those 8 getting it vs. 200 men? In my section here in the CYS there are 2 girls. Both play good. At all east we had 1 girl she was first chair (and she could play I mite add) she really was expresive and power full. It's just a matter of sheer numbers. Guy's gravitate to the Cello and Bass more than women I guess.

[topbassman]

didnt Bernstein have to throw a chair against the wall to get O'Brien in the Phil or somthing like that?

[Holly Wright]

As a personal opinion, school orchestra teachers in the beggining years like to put girls on the smaller instruments because they have problems carrying the bass. (get to high school level and they want the lower instruments no matter what, girl or guy)

It seems to me, if early orchestra teachers would give the girls chance to strenghen up to the bass, there wouldnt be such a gap. Thing is, after most girls hit the age where their beautiful soft fingers are worth more than a lot of fun, they dont want to play bass.

My 6th grade orchestra teacher taught me to play bass after I played bass for 3 years. When I asked him he seemed mortified! he really did not want me on bass.

[LeslieD]

"As a personal opinion, school orchestra teachers in the beggining years like to put girls on the smaller instruments because they have problems carrying the bass."

There's a lot of truth in that... I was selected to play the bass because my junior high music director thought I might end up being pretty tall (and so was the only other girl who played bass in my orchestra). Proficiency was never a consideration, the length of my fingers and legs seemed to be more important at the time.

Over the years, I HAVE encountered a sort of fraternal order of bass players that often left women out (left them out of the jokes/jobs/club). But mostly, it hasn't been a problem for me (though I'm not a professional bass player). I think the problem was the most obvious way back in high school, and even then wasn't anything very troublesome.

[Pete G]

It seems now that female bass players are much more common than once was the case.

However, there still don't seem to be as many female conductors as I'd have predicted, and there is no discernable logical explanation for that.

I hope Alsop does well in Baltimore.