3/4 Neck to 1/2 Body?

360guy · #1 12-11-2009, 10:27 AM

Any problems to look for when trying to put a 3/4 Englehardt neck to a 1/2 size Kay body?

gbaker · #2 12-12-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 360guy

Any problems to look for when trying to put a 3/4 Englehardt neck to a 1/2 size Kay body?

Nobody is touching this question with an 11-foot pole.

Basses have design proportions. String length is one and body length to string length is another among many. I expect the 3/4 neck will be longer (at 42") and change all these proportions. Also the FB MAY be too wide over all.

Result - who knows?

Opinions (others may differ):

Don't change the bridge position - is between the ff notches.

Allow an overstand of about 1" (FB to top at the neck joint).

Look for proper bridge height (like 6") by projecting the FB line to the bridge position.

Maybe you can reduce the string length by trimming the FB at the nut and adding a wide nut.

Good luck.

MrSidecar · #3 12-12-2009, 03:01 PM

The first I would shoot for is the scale length, and especially the note that sits at the neck joint on the g-string. On usual instruments, this identifies a bass as being "D" or "Eb". Makes a considerable difference in playability (although it´s a preference really) and I believe retail value is lower on Eb-basses.

I´d estimate that with your desired combination of things, you´ll end up with a Db-bass. I might very well be wrong here...

EDIT: You´ll probably get an E-bass. Nut moves up, half length moves up also. Thus, D moves up also, ending with Eb or E on the neck joint.

The slot might not be fitting the neck. Could be. Both in width and length.

Most important: The bass will most likely look weird. And feel weird as well. The thumb position moves down, since the nut moves up and you don´t have to pull out the endpin as usual. But then the shoulders are too far south to feel well....

I don´t know, are you at all serious about this?

Best

Sidecar

360guy · #4 12-12-2009, 11:20 PM

Well I have a 1/2 size Kay body with no neck that was given to me and I saw a 3/4 size neck on ebay so I started to think "why not". But I would just as soon put a 1/2 size neck on the thing if I could find one. Heck, the ebay neck is new and has no tuners with it. I've got an old set of tuners that I could make fit but maybe I'll come across someone with a neck and no 1/2 size body and let them put it together.

bribass · #5 12-13-2009, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbaker

Nobody is touching this question with an 11-foot pole.

Basses have design proportions. String length is one and body length to string length is another among many. I expect the 3/4 neck will be longer (at 42") and change all these proportions. Also the FB MAY be too wide over all.

Result - who knows?

Opinions (others may differ):

Don't change the bridge position - is between the ff notches.

Allow an overstand of about 1" (FB to top at the neck joint).

Look for proper bridge height (like 6") by projecting the FB line to the bridge position.

Maybe you can reduce the string length by trimming the FB at the nut and adding a wide nut.

Good luck.

What would be so terrible about having the bridge sit a little farther south of the ff notches?

Would you be able to keep string length to at least 41.5 or 42 inches that way?

gbaker · #6 12-14-2009, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 360guy

Well I have a 1/2 size Kay body with no neck that was given to me and I saw a 3/4 size neck on ebay so I started to think "why not". But I would just as soon put a 1/2 size neck on the thing if I could find one. Heck, the ebay neck is new and has no tuners with it. I've got an old set of tuners that I could make fit but maybe I'll come across someone with a neck and no 1/2 size body and let them put it together.

The length of my 1999 3/4 Engle neck - nut to heel is 18 1/8".

I assume you have no neck in hand. Maybe some kind soul that has a Kay 1/2 could give you the scale length and the length of the neck. Then you could determine just how far off the 3/4 neck would be. . .

Jake deVilliers · #7 12-14-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 360guy

Any problems to look for when trying to put a 3/4 Englehardt neck to a 1/2 size Kay body?

Kay never made any 1/2 size basses, just 3/4 and 1/4.

360guy · #8 12-15-2009, 07:23 AM

I must be a rich man to have the only Kay half size.

gbaker · #9 12-15-2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Kay never made any 1/2 size basses, just 3/4 and 1/4.

Yep. Small 1/4 and Cello-basses.

http://www.kaybass.com/Kay%20HBass%20Models.htm

If the neck is different than the 3/4, you should be able to get one from Engelhardt as they still make the 1/4.

360guy · #10 12-16-2009, 07:28 PM

Yes, you are right. It's an M-3. Now that you've educated me on that I guess I am looking for a 1/4 size neck. I'll have to keep my eyes open. Thanks for your help!

1st Bass · #11 12-16-2009, 08:49 PM

The Englehardt necks are by no means a perfect fit, as in "just drop it in and glue it"-- but they are readily available. I got one from International Violin Co. I think it was about $100 (3/4 size).

There was a good deal of fitting to do-- adding wood, here, taking it off there, etc. but the finished product worked fine. Fortunately I had the original scroll and neck to look at, so I could hand-carve it to match the one I removed.

I also added carbon fiber reinforcement, since I had it apart already.

Good luck with the project.

360guy · #12 12-16-2009, 08:56 PM

Where did you add reinforcement?

1st Bass · #13 12-16-2009, 09:45 PM

I sawed two slots, perhaps 22 degrees out of square to the face of the neck, sloping in opposite directions from the centerline, and full length of the neck, forming effectively an upside down V , looking from either the heel or the pegbox. I then used epoxy to glue in place carbon reinforcements 1/8" x 1/2", and extending the full length of the neck. (NOTE: you MUST get these things below the surface! They are murder on tools.)

I used a jig to hold the neck absolutely straight during gluing.

Then I trimmed the carbon rods from each end, and fitted the fingerboard. It makes a very stiff neck, but as Englehardts and Kays tend to be on the thin side, that is probably appropriate.

I painted over the ends of the carbon rods with varnish and color, to somewhat disguise the fact that they are there. But, if you look under the heel, or into the bottom of the pegbox, you can still see them.

I bought the carbon fiber flat-bar stock online at a place called "dragon plate" or something close to that. Not too expensive, as I recall.

Chet

Jake deVilliers · #14 12-16-2009, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 360guy

Yes, you are right. It's an M-3. Now that you've educated me on that I guess I am looking for a 1/4 size neck. I'll have to keep my eyes open. Thanks for your help!

You can buy replacement necks from Engelhardt-Link or Bob Gollihur's site.

360guy · #15 12-18-2009, 06:20 AM

I've sent an email to the fellow who gave me the bass. At the time he said he had some other parts floating around his shop or basement. I must have asked him at the time ( a couple of months ago) about the neck but he was pretty sure he didn't have it.
Anyway wouldn't it be nice if it turned up? Would sure save me a lot of trouble and money. I have a carved 3/4 size neck blank but what I think I need is a 1/4 size neck blank to keep everything in scale. And I'm not just talking string length wise. I guess proprtion would be a better word for it. But I haven't seen any 1/4 size necks just 3/4.

And wouldn't the tuners have to be 1/4 size to fit the smaller peg box?

I'm sure this is not a new idea on TB but do any of the luthiers have a swap corner? If there is a person out there with a 1/4 neck but no body we need to talk. Another example is end pin plugs. I have about a 100 of these things... I'll never use them all--even if I come back as a luthier again ( Note: I don't believe in reincarnation... but I didn't when i was here before so there you go).

Thanks for your help on this everyone who has posted.