4th redressing = replace fingerboard?

[SirFunk]

Hi all,

I have a Romanian flatback that I have owned for about 6 years now. This instrument has been really good to me. It's not the ballsiest sounding orchestral instrument; but it has great projection and tone for jazz and solo rep.

Anyhow. I'm getting a fair amount of buzzing on all strings up to about the C on the G string when playing pizz. The action is moderate. I really would not like to have to raise it at all and I have certainly had it lower in the past with no problems.

Since I have had this bass I have had the fingerboard re-planed 3 times and this would make it 4. The action is wonderful after each replaining but it only lasts about 6-9 months before it starts to buzz and then i tend to let it go for another 3 or so before i take care of it. The fingerboard is real ebony, however it is not pure black ebony there's some light brown/gray streaks in it.

At this point do you think it would be wiser to get the fingerboard replaced with a high quality ebony one? A redressing every 6 months seems a little extreme no? Could the problem be that the neck is warping not the fingerboard warping or wareing unevenly?

Thanks,
Jeff

[JtheJazzMan]

is it a gliga by any chance?

[Gearhead43]

It could very well be that the board is warping or moving.

You shouldn't need to have the board dressed that frequently. I know professional touring slap rockabilly players who play tons and tons of gigs every month, and they don't need their fingerboards dressed nearly that often, even with that amount of hard use.

Something isn't quite right.

[SirFunk]

Has anyone ever heard of a cheap board continuing to warp after 6 years? At first i assumed maybe the board was a little green when it was glued to the neck.. thus when the board dried/shrunk it would warp up... but after 6 years?

Is there anything else that could be causing this?

[arnoldschnitzer]

Your neck is warping. Every time you have the fingerboard dressed (thinned) the neck gets even weaker. I think the neck is most likely bowing backwards. This happens from using improperly seasoned wood, or from reaction wood (wood taken from a tree which was leaning). Sometimes excessive dryness can make this worse.

The cure is to have the fingerboard removed, the neck heat-straightened and trued-up, a reinforcement installed, and a new fingerboard glued on and dressed.

[Rvl]

What method of reinforcing is used?
Carbon fiber rods or steel square tubing?

Do modern handmade basses have reinforcing?
Or is this just a repair for poor quality necks

Thanks

Robert VanLane

[zeytoun]

Robert,

Dried cellulose, & gelatin.
edit: didn't read the thread carefully, and thought you were referring to default bass necks. That's what happens when you try to be a smart-a55....

[arnoldschnitzer]

Originally Posted by Rvl

What method of reinforcing is used?
Carbon fiber rods or steel square tubing?

Do modern handmade basses have reinforcing?
Or is this just a repair for poor quality necks

Thanks

Robert VanLane

I like carbon fiber rectangular rod let into a channel into the neck, under the fingerboard. I put this in all my handmade basses, as does Dan Hachez. We believe it improves the neck's stability and is also good for tone/response.

[Matthew Tucker]

On the recommendation of Arnold and others here, I now fit the CF re-inforcement as well to new and old basses, and agree that it does improve the stability and performance of the neck and fingerboard, and the feel of the bass.

To get an idea of the condition of your fingerboard, in good light, I sight down from the nut end at a very oblique angle until I get reflection happening. The surface of the board should ideally look shiny and smooth, with a slight curve along the board.

If I see a badly rippled surface, its an indication that the surface of the ebony may have moved or is worn, and it would benefit from a replane, or at least, some love and attention to the board surface. This is easier to see with strings off but a strung-up bass will show quite well. Looking at a used bass this way, I can usually tell straight away whether it has had a recent setup or not! Note that a strung-up fingerboard tends to be very slightly ripplier than the same board un-strung, because the strings put tension on the board.

If I hold a card with a grid of heavy lines marked on it (I use about a 1" grid) at the extremity of the bass (say, on the floor), I see these lines reflected in the surface of the fingerboard. The straightness or otherwise of these lines helps to visualise the even-ness of the scoop and camber.

Here's a not-very-good pic of what I see



It's hard to photograph.

Of course, this is just one tool to use to understand any particular board. Try it!

[Jake deVilliers]

I look at the reflected 4' fluorescent tubes in the fingerboard - they show really well when the board `is freshly waxed!

[Rvl]

Thanks guys. The next time a fingerboard is off I'll have them put in a CF rod.

Do you use 1 rod or 2?

Thanks

Robert VanLane

[Jake deVilliers]

I use one 1/4" x 1/2" x 18" bar cut to length and epoxied into the neck with a maple filler strip on top. Its stiff as all heck.

[1st Bass]

Jake,

Where are you getting CF in those dimensions, if you don't mind saying? I got mine from Dragonplate, but I had a tough time finding cross-sectional dimensions that large. (I ended up using two bars, each half that thick, and yes, they are VERY stiff.)

Chet

[Jake deVilliers]

Chet, they are from Luthier's Mercantile - www.lmii.com

They are in Healdsburg, California. I like them partly because they're the old Bill Lewis Music store from Vancouver, BC. He sold it to the guys when he retired and they moved it down there. I still have some Brazilian guitar sides that came from Bill Lewis on Broadway!

Michael Heiden puts them in the necks of his mandolins which is where I learned of them. They're great for banjo and guitar too - super stiff and light weight. No good for the guitar repairman who needs an adjustable rod to create relief but if you know how to make your own, the neck will NEVER move.

[1st Bass]

Thanks, Jake! I will look them up.

[fdeck]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

On the recommendation of Arnold and others here, I now fit the CF re-inforcement as well to new and old basses, and agree that it does improve the stability and performance of the neck and fingerboard, and the feel of the bass.

To get an idea of the condition of your fingerboard, in good light, I sight down from the nut end at a very oblique angle until I get reflection happening. The surface of the board should ideally look shiny and smooth, with a slight curve along the board.

If I see a badly rippled surface, its an indication that the surface of the ebony may have moved or is worn, and it would benefit from a replane, or at least, some love and attention to the board surface. This is easier to see with strings off but a strung-up bass will show quite well. Looking at a used bass this way, I can usually tell straight away whether it has had a recent setup or not! Note that a strung-up fingerboard tends to be very slightly ripplier than the same board un-strung, because the strings put tension on the board.

If I hold a card with a grid of heavy lines marked on it (I use about a 1" grid) at the extremity of the bass (say, on the floor), I see these lines reflected in the surface of the fingerboard. The straightness or otherwise of these lines helps to visualise the even-ness of the scoop and camber.

Here's a not-very-good pic of what I see



It's hard to photograph.

Of course, this is just one tool to use to understand any particular board. Try it!

Cool. I am an optical engineer by day, and I use pretty much the same method to quickly check the quality of mirror surfaces in the factory.

[SirFunk]

Hey guys, Thanks for all the responses. I'm not sure if my neck is reinforced or not. I'm guessing not. I'll call up my lutheir this week sometime and get a quote for fingerboard replacement and reinforcement (I'm sure it won't be cheap.. but i will probably be keeping this bass for quite some time so it's worth it)

Thanks again

[uprightben]

I have a romanian bass with the same problem (gliga), and arnold nailed it, the neck isn't totally stable. The grain of the maple bows and this seems to cause the neck to bend a little with the seasons. One really easy way to tell if this is going on is to hold a 4' straight edge, or a tight string against the fb glue joint. If the joint isn't straight, you have a bent neck. I did my luthier a favor by droping my bass and knocking the fb off for him, , and he was able to straighten things for me.

[gandalf1]

First, let me say hello all, as this is my first post. I've been reading on and off for several months, and have to say that this forum is a great resource.

On this note of neck reinforcements, I have the unique perspective of having the same bass/problem but also having had it repaired. Bass is a Romanian flatback (Gliga I think; label says "handmade in Reghin, Romania"), bought new about 10 years ago.

The fingerboard was never really glued on all that well, and the neck eventually warped, making the bass harder and harder to play. I'm supremely lucky to only live a couple of hours from Arnold, and he worked his magic on it a couple of months back: heat straightened the neck, CF insert, and new fingerboard. The bass plays and sounds much better now (and it didn't really sound all that terrible before). Great growl, long sustain, and a fuller sound. Of course the new fingerboard also factors strongly into this.

After the repair, I can say the increased stiffness in the neck is quite noticeable (at least to me, anyway, I'm a mechanical engineer, and tend to notice little things like this...can't help it).

Anyway, the repair has breathed new life into the bass, and I hope to get many more years out of it. It really made a nice difference. On the other hand, it's a non-trivial repair, cost-wise, and does take some wrangling to decide whether to move forward with it or not. I rationalized it by noting that a new bass would be several times more money, and I would also be faced with having to get rid of the Romanian, in essentially a crippled condition. Since it had served me well over the past 10 years or so, I decided it deserved the repair. In retrospect, I'm glad I went this route. And, of course, having Arnold behind the chisel was a big additional comfort.

And, on an unrelated note, I' afraid I am slipping down that slippery slope of "trying to build your own bass". I just printed the mold plans on a wide-format (36") injket printer to start making the molds (I am using the Wake book/plans). I am trying to chronicle the whole process and will post something up when I get the mold made (and lots of questions as well, I am sure).

Thanks again for the great forum, and I look forward to conversing with many of you moving forward.

-Jon Longtin
http://long2.eng.sunysb.edu

[ctregan]

Originally Posted by gandalf1

And, on an unrelated note, I' afraid I am slipping down that slippery slope of "trying to build your own bass".

Think positive; your not slipping down a slope, your about to climb a mountain!