Action vs String Height

[Matthew Tucker]

OK ... someone please explain why it is such a sin to refer to the distance from the string to the fingerboard of a double bass the "action".

Is this just double bass snobbery or is there a good reason to sneer at people who refer to it that way?

Does a fretless bass guitar player have "action" or "string height"?

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I still refer to it as "action", just not around Lluthiers and Pee-dub. In real life, I still sometimes say "upright bass", "doghouse" and "bull fiddle", too. When someone really doesn't understand what a bass is, I'll even make the universal sign for double bass: Arms rounded in front, left hand over the left temple, right hand down at junk level with thumb locked out and first two fingers extended. Even the dimmest bulbs understand that.

[Bruce Lindfield]

When you think about it - "action" is really meaningless in this context, whereas "string height" is totally clear and totally accurate - it describes what we are talking about! (Does what it says on the tin! )

So - what does "action" actually mean...to somebody who has never come across this term before...

If we are talking about teaching somebody to play DB who has no prior experience - then "string height" is self explanatory and accurate. It's clearly a better term to use in this context.

[4FretlessMetal]

string height can be ambiguous as well, is it refering to the distance from the fingerboard to the top of the string or to the distance from the fingerboard to the bottom of the string. where as in the context of bass playing refering to action is supposed to mean the distance the string has to move in order to contact the of the fingerboard or the top of frets on a fretted bass. I prefer to use the term "action" since as a term of art it is more accurate since it supposedly refers to a dynamic movement. just my 2 cebts

[Bruce Lindfield]

He said frets!!!

Code violation one!!!

[vejesse]

I think the term 'action' is fine. How the bass feels is a combination of string height at the nut and bridge, fingerboard relief and curvature, string construction and tension, angle over the bridge,, etc. Call me Joe Six Pack but there's plenty of unnecessary voodoo happening out there in this field.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by vejesse

I think the term 'action' is fine. How the bass feels is a combination of string height at the nut and bridge, fingerboard relief and curvature, string construction and tension, angle over the bridge,, etc. Call me Joe Six Pack but there's plenty of unnecessary voodoo happening out there in this field.

Well put. To me, "action" means all of these things, and refers to how the bass feels to play overall, where "string height" refers to only that one single parameter.

Before this gets more heated, I'm going slink off and practice my acoustic upright standup bass.

[arnoldschnitzer]

The Double Bass is a Violin family instrument. Violinmakers do not generally refer to the set-up parameters as the "action". They use words like "string height", "arch" and "camber". So do I. Call me a snob.

[vejesse]

Hah! Fair enough, but the bass is still a 'bastard'.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by 4FretlessMetal

string height can be ambiguous as well, is it refering to the distance from the fingerboard to the top of the string or to the distance from the fingerboard to the bottom of the string.

No, it's not ambiguous or vague if you know the definition. String height on the double bass is measured at the end of the fingerboard and is the disatnce between it and the bottom of the string.

Originally Posted by 4FretlessMetal

...where as in the context of bass playing refering to action is supposed to mean the distance the string has to move in order to contact the of the fingerboard or the top of frets on a fretted bass. I prefer to use the term "action" since as a term of art it is more accurate since it supposedly refers to a dynamic movement. just my 2 cebts

In the context of playing bass? Bass guitar, perhaps! My understanding is that in the BG or G world, "action" refers to the overall effect of several parameters. I could be wrong. Those parameters have names in the DB world. To wit:

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

The Double Bass is a Violin family instrument. Violinmakers do not generally refer to the set-up parameters as the "action". They use words like "string height", "arch" and "camber". So do I. Call me a snob.

One might combine string height, arch, and camber and say they all effect the "action" (ugh!!!) of the DB. Even if one accepted that, string height would not be at all synonymous with "action." String height is string height.

[zeytoun]

I'm going with the "action" being a less specific descriptor explanation.

On a guitar (incl. bass guitar), "action" is a result of both bridge height, and nut height. Both can be adjusted to preferences, but generally, the "action" stays pretty even up and down the fret board.

On a double bass, "string height" is a result of the bridge height, as the nut height doesn't really vary much (there's pretty much one correct height: pretty low). You don't hear bluegrass players talking about raising their nut height, so they can get better sound.

[Gearhead43]

Well, our nut height does tend to droop as we get older....

[zeytoun]

That's why they warned me to quit tugging on them

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Gearhead43

Well, our nut height does tend to droop as we get older....

Speak for yourself!

[vejesse]

String height is string height. Ok. I submit that fingerboard relief or camber is just as important to the feel. Give the fingerboard the minimum amount of camber - enough that the bowed G string doesn't rattle unless it's pushed harder than you would in a performance. Most players know how to adjust the height of their adjustable bridge but can't figure out why their bass still feels stiff even though the strings are low or why the strings rattle against the fingerboard even though the string height is high. Then you point out that the reason why their open strings buzz even though the nut is painfully high is because the last guy to dress the fingerboard sanded in a drop off at the nut. At least he used the correct terminology.

I don't have copies of Strad magazine lying around my well cleaned showroom. I do keep my fridge stocked with beer however.

Come on guys. When my orchestral customers come in we talk about string height and camber. When the jazz guys come in it's string height, action and fingerboard relief.

[Bass]

Originally Posted by drurb

...My understanding is that in the BG or G world, "action" refers to the overall effect of several parameters...

True, I think of action as how the guitar feels after it's been properly set-up.

But the majority of (ignorant) guitar players think action is how high the strings are. Hence many BG players refering to string-height as action. We know what they mean.

Further, they think that low action is easier to play, so they grab an allen wrench and crank the truss rod. Ha ha. Probably the wrong way, and then they take the guitar in to have it set-up.

[fdeck]

"Action" is a sensitive topic for those who don't get any.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by vejesse

Come on guys. When my orchestral customers come in we talk about string height and camber. When the jazz guys come in it's string height, action and fingerboard relief.

So, uh, as I said, string height would not be synonymous with "action." You've done a fine job (along with Arnold) pointing out why. The parameters are still string height, fingerboard camber, and arch or string height, relief and arch (for your jazz guys). "Action" seems a nebulous term in the DB world. It's not a parameter but seems to be the result of setting the parameters. I'm not clear on what your jazz guys would mean by "action" unless they mean the overall feel. What started this thread was an inquiry regarding why one shouldn't refer to string height as action. I think the answer is that string height is a parameter (as is camber and arch). Action seems to be the result of setting the parameters.

[zeytoun]

And you could argue that string tension and thickness also are parameters that contribute to the resulting "action", no?

[fdeck]

Originally Posted by drurb

"Action" seems a nebulous term in the DB world.

Truth be told, "action" is a nebulous term in the EB world too.