Advice on gluing neck to body

[draftsmann]

Gentlemen; I would appreciate some advice.

I bought a new, in-the-white bass, in parts, from an eBay seller in China.

The seller, incidentally, is lankuishuang; and his eBay shop is the Charming Song Violin Store. The process of buying/shipping from him was painless; and I am impressed with the quality of what I received - a body of hybrid construction, with nice carved spruce top and beautifully figured flame maple back and ribs; a neck/scroll of reasonable quality maple, and a fingerboard in very nice, dark (undyed) ebony.

The parts required sanding and finishing, machine heads fitting, nut and fingerboard fitting, drilling for endpin, and varnishing. So far I have completed all of these jobs without any problem - I've done a fair bit of woodwork and (if it doesn't offend to mention it here) have done a lot of maintenance/repairs on guitars and bass guitars.

Particular thanks must go incidentally to the member of this forum who recommended Tru-oil, which hitherto I've only used for rifle and shotgun stocks, but which gave a very nice finish - I applied 8 coats in all to the body, using fingertips, and cut it back with well-worn 600 grit paper to give a very nice semi-satin finish that I am quite pleased with. The neck and scroll will be finished after being fitted.

Now to the question. The parts arrived with the neck 90% fitted, and after much patient work with thumb plane, scraper and sanding block I now have the neck-body joint so that it is a perfect, tight dry fit, and when assembled dry the neck is perfectly aligned.

I'm proposing to construct a support/cramp for the gluing using a scaffolding plank and some old bookshelf brackets I have lying around. I do have some long sash cramps but they are heavy beasts and I think my idea will work better.

I'm proposing to use Titebond liquid hide unless someone gives me a good reason not to. I have neither the experience of nor equipment for "proper" animal gluing.

Most of all, having already invested considerable money and time so far, without breaking anything, I want to get this part of the job right.

Hence I'd appreciate it if any experienced members could give me some "pointers", as my palms are beginning to sweat!

Many thanks in advance,

Adrian

[uprightben]

Liquid hide glue contains urea, which will break down the bond over time. If you do a search for how to use real hide glue on this forum, you will find many methods that require no special equipment.

[ctregan]

Ground hide glue has amazing holding strength. It is the only glue to use for such an application. You will have to practice using the glue first on test pieces to get familiar with it.

Lots of different ways to clamp the neck to the body, it depends on the type of joint and the fit. I have seen people use straps that hook on to the c-bouts and run over the neck heel.

Most important; Make sure the neck straight and allows good hight for the bridge.

[Matthew Tucker]

IME if you have a really good tight fit you hardly need to clamp. But yep, hide glue is the only way to go. And easy.

[draftsmann]

Most helpful, gentlemen - many thanks.

Consider me persuaded . I'll source some of the proper stuff, and do some reading on the subject and experimenting on scraps before I attempt the real assembly.

It's been a very enjoyable little project up to now, by the way - and the quality of construction/wood on this bass is many times better than the typical cheap Chinese bass. I'd be interested to know if anyone else has bought/completed an "in-the-white" bass from this eBay seller.

Should I post some photos when it's completed?

Thanks again

Adrian

[Damon Rondeau]

Take care, though, that the hide glue you get isn't the ultra-strong stuff meant for furniture-making and other non-luthiery pursuits. In Canada, this would be the glue you would obtain through Lee Valley, for example. It sets very quickly and you'll have trouble with it if you haven't got experience working with it, even if you have significant woodworking experience.

I believe glue strength is measured by something called a "Blum count" (forgive me, luthiers, if I got that wrong -- I'm at work, without my reference material, and doing this quickly.)

[draftsmann]

Originally Posted by Damon Rondeau

Take care, though, that the hide glue you get isn't the ultra-strong stuff meant for furniture-making and other non-luthiery pursuits. In Canada, this would be the glue you would obtain through Lee Valley, for example. It sets very quickly and you'll have trouble with it if you haven't got experience working with it, even if you have significant woodworking experience.

Thank you for that tip. I am going to pay a visit on a local guitar repairer tomorrow - he should have the right stuff.

Adrian

[Jake deVilliers]

Hey Adrian, all you need is some ~192 gram strength granular hide glue, a jam jar, a kitchen scale, a cappucino thermometer and a pot.

Mix the hide with water at 1:1.8 and heat in your jam jar in the pot of water until BUT NOT BEYOND 140 F.

It helps a lot if you pre-heat the parts and you should definitely practice first as mentioned. The timing is much quicker than with white/yellow glue, and once the parts touch down, you're there - ther's none of that sliding around stuff.

If the squeeze-out is blobby, the parts were too cold - it needs to squeeze out as liquid.

And take Matthew's point too - if the joint fits well you don't need much clamping.

Have fun!

[Pentabass]

If I were in your situation, I would give serious consideration to a system where I could make the neck removeable - a single bolt in the right location might do it, but there are a number of alternative methods described on this forum.

Think about your traveling needs -- your location says Malta and Britain.

That's just my opinion, but if you ever decide to go that route, NOW is the time to do it, before your glue sets and your hands are all sweaty and sticky...

[Matthew Tucker]

I was going to suggest the same, actually. You can always glue it later if you don't like it.

[draftsmann]

I wasn't sure if the bolt-on suggestion was a wind-up - although plenty of bass guitars and some EUBs have bolt-on necks.

I think they feature even on some high end flat-top guitars with the bolts screwing into the heel from the neck block inside the body...if only they made an upright with a nice, round soundhole that would be one way of doing it!

As it is, I guess it would be a case of screwing in through the heel and finishing with plugs - which sounds like more hassle than gluing - or am I wrong?

I did once travel alone across Britain by train to Gatwick Airport and then flew to Malta with a double bass (in coffin hardcase), briefcase and large suitcase. It is a journey I never want to repeat - although one moment lightened it, when a lady asked me "what do you have in there" - to which I replied "my grandmother" . The look on her face was something to behold.

No, this bass won't be travelling!

Adrian

[fdeck]

I suppose with a long enough extension on a socket wrench, you could go in through the end pin hole.

[Jazzdogg]

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Hey Adrian, all you need is some ~192 gram strength granular hide glue, a jam jar, a kitchen scale, a cappucino thermometer and a pot.

Mix the hide with water at 1:1.8 and heat in your jam jar in the pot of water until BUT NOT BEYOND 140 F.

It helps a lot if you pre-heat the parts and you should definitely practice first as mentioned. The timing is much quicker than with white/yellow glue, and once the parts touch down, you're there - ther's none of that sliding around stuff.

If the squeeze-out is blobby, the parts were too cold - it needs to squeeze out as liquid.

And take Matthew's point too - if the joint fits well you don't need much clamping.

Have fun!

I use a garage sale crock pot (and a thermometer to verify the water temperature) to heat the water in which the Mason jar containing the hide glue sits. Works great, and I think I paid $5.00 for it.

To the OP - whatever you do, don't allow the water bath to evaporate - if it does, the glue will be ruined, and you aren't likely to enjoy the fragrance.

[ctregan]

+1 on warming up the wood parts first. Use a heat gun or hair dryer.

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by fdeck

I suppose with a long enough extension on a socket wrench, you could go in through the end pin hole.

You'll go far, me lad

[RCWilliams]

a couple aditional thoughts, practice your clamping setup a couple times before actual glueing, and size the end grain with the same glue.

[fdeck]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

You'll go far, me lad

d'Oh! I assumed the goal was to conceal the bolt head.

[Matthew Tucker]

Well you could, but it'd be a heck of a lot of work to remove the neck for transport! the trick is to conceal the bolt as neatly as you can.

[Ken McKay]

You can use a strap clamp, bought from auto parts store, they are effective at pulling the neck butt down into the mortise. Add another clamp to keep it glued to the back plate and back of mortise.

And here is a "through the hole" bolt. I don't know how well it will work yet. We will see.

[Ken McKay]

good luck with the project.