Advice on my bendy Bridge

[Rick Middleton]

I'm new to Talkbass - and I've found an amazing amount of information, shared experience and opinions already. What an amazing forum it is.

For those who don't want to read my preamble, please just skip to the picture of my bridge.

Here's my question: Do you think the bridge might bend back the right way (towards the fingerboard) now I have moved it, or if you think it will continue to go the other way??

The prologue (as Frankie Howard used to say)....
I'd read through a lot of the Newbie links for double bass setup and then when I looked at my bass (a Reghin about 35 years old maybe - more on that in another post soon) I found the bridge was nearly 2cm closer to the fingerboard than it should be and upon inspection it was leaning backward towards the tailpiece and seemed to be bent or warped slightly. Then I read up on the soundpost and when I checked mine out it seemed to be leaning at a peculiar angle.

I slackened the strings and put the bridge where it should be ( I think - between the notches on the f holes ), but when I tried to stand it up straighter the feet didn't touch the table properly. SO I deciced to be daring, I lay the bass flat on a table, and removed the bridge. Then over 2 and a half hours I VERY carefully filed the bridge feet so that it would stand more upright. After an hour I was a bit eager with testing my adjustments and knocked over the sound post - but I thought it had looked in a very dodgy position anyway.

Anyway, eventually I put it all back together, and put the sound post close to what seems to be the "standard" place, just slightly below the G foot and roughly a posts width south of the bridge.

When I played it I was TOTALLY AMAZED , the bass sounded so much louder, warmer and had a load more sustain. I had a gig last night and through my Realist pickup it had so much more detail to the sound. It sounds £3000 more expensive than it did before, and (maybe because the string length is greater) seemed easier to play too.

I am sooooo happy with my amateur luthering skills and want to leave it just as it is, but....
I'm just worried about the bend of the bridge, and if it will get worse or not.

What do you guys think?

Rick

[Steve Swan]

You need a new bridge!

[Rick Middleton]

I'm pretty sure that you are right Steve, I'll keep my eye on it and if it keeps going towards the tailpiece I'll get a new one.

Maybe before that I'll try either the:-

a) Put it in a pan of hot water, or
b) Dampen it then microwave it for 30 secs method
and allow it to dry out while sitting under a heavy weight.

But I've heard that the bridge usually just bends back to where it was originally was quite quickly.

Time will tell I guess.

Rick

(as an afterthought... (a thought after a beer that is), my bridge
actually looks like it might be starting to form an S shape...
Isn't that how the human spine is designed... to be stronger??
Maybe I'll start a whole new trend in S shaped bridges!!!!!
Hmmm.... you're right.... maybe not )

[Cody Sisk]

Originally Posted by Rick Middleton

I'm pretty sure that you are right Steve, I'll keep my eye on it and if it keeps going towards the tailpiece I'll get a new one.

Maybe before that I'll try either the:-

a) Put it in a pan of hot water, or
b) Dampen it then microwave it for 30 secs method
and allow it to dry out while sitting under a heavy weight.

But I've heard that the bridge usually just bends back to where it was originally was quite quickly.

Time will tell I guess.

Rick

(as an afterthought... (a thought after a beer that is), my bridge
actually looks like it might be starting to form an S shape...
Isn't that how the human spine is designed... to be stronger??
Maybe I'll start a whole new trend in S shaped bridges!!!!!
Hmmm.... you're right.... maybe not )

This procedure will only make it worse. Sure it will correct it in the short run, but it will warp exponentially quicker than it did initially. The bridge you have looks pretty soft seeing that it's s-shaped. You're putting a band-aid on a broken limb. I have to agree with Steve, it's new bridge time..

[Rick Middleton]

Thanks for that, I am gearing up for a new bridge! But there are so many questions.... Should I get an adjustable or not?... will I want to use a Full Circle Pickup? Or will a DPA 4099 or Ehrlund Acoustic pickup work well enough to give clarity to a Realist? And does anyone know a good UK bridge retailer? and does anyone know a good bass luthier in North West England?

While I ponder these questions... Here's a better photo of my bridge, taken just now. I don't think it's really S shaped, it was just my overactive imagination.

Rick

[Cody Sisk]

It's not an emergency situation, not that warped. Take your time in your decision.

[timobee4]

I once purchased a 75 year old Hungarian bass with a bridge like that! I loved the old bridge but I was nervous because I thought that under tension It will either snap in two or pop out resulting in a very expansive repair job if something else cracks! I desperately wanted to save it but I knew if I cant I'd have to get a new bridge cut! With that thought I boiled water in a pan and sunk my bridge into the boiling water for a minute or so, after I placed it on a flat surface and clamped a block of flat wood on top! As I was clamping the hot piece of wood it was going straight! I have left it for a week!!!!!! A week later took all the clamps off and the bridge was straight and lovely, I wasn't convinced so I have left it under the harsh Australian sun for another week to make sure that it is completely dry!! That was 8-9 years ago and I still have it! I dont have the bass anymore but I kept the old bridge fitted to another bass because the slots are for gut diameter. Don't throw it out, fix it!

[Uncletoad]

Ridiculous. It's time for a new bridge. It's a "cost of doing business" part like strings. The last thing you want is the thing failing on a gig somewhere and you have to stop playing for the night because you were to thrifty to fix your bass when it was obviously broken.

[Bill Bentgen]

I also strongly recommend a new bridge.

It that solution is absolutely out of the question for you, and only if it's absolutely out of the question, +1 on what timobee4 said; try the following:

Take the bridge off.

Hold the bridge over a frying pan of boiling water for about 10 minutes. Us a pair of plyers to hold it and hold it about 3"-4" from the water. Flip it over occassionally.

Clamp the bridge tightly between 2 flat boards and let sit overnight.

When you re-install the bridge, use a rat-tail file to insure the strings don't bind in the notches on the bridge. Also lubricate the notches with a really soft pencil (5B, available at art stores) Make sure you don't make the notches any deeper.

This worked for me once. Your results may vary.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by Rick Middleton

a) Put it in a pan of hot water, or
b) Dampen it then microwave it for 30 secs method
and allow it to dry out while sitting under a heavy weight.

I have done this several times to different bridges. It can buy you some time and you can do it in one day at no cost. You have basically nothing to lose.

I did it putting it in a pot of boiling water for about 20 min, and then piled up some dumbbells and let it dry for a day.

[Rick Middleton]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Ridiculous. It's time for a new bridge. It's a "cost of doing business" part like strings. The last thing you want is the thing failing on a gig somewhere and you have to stop playing for the night because you were to thrifty to fix your bass when it was obviously broken.

Thanks for the input Uncle, I've only been on here a month and I've had great fun reading your massive superthread journeys from guts and back to spiros. I think I must have read some of this a year or two ago when I needed some new strings and you inspired me to get the current strings I have.. (Spriro Stark E, Mittel A, Belcanto D and G - I'm thinking of trying out a Mittel E)

Yep, the bridge needs replacing... and here is where I need help. I've been measuring it and it seems bigger than the standard 3/4 bridges that are available, but I don't really know for sure as I'm kind of a DB newb (played it for 10 years but knew nothing much about it till I joined TB - that was when I realised my bridge was set like over an inch too high and leaning backwards and warped, so I tried to set it up better as described above.)

I'll attatch a diagram of my bridge measurements (in millimeters - sorry you imperial guys - I'm too lazy to write both)

But to summarise in imperial:
>the distance between the feet is about 3 1/16 inches,
>the total width at the feet is 6 1/8 inches
>centre of bridge feet approx 4.5 inches
>arc (straight across) - only 4 1/8 inches. IS THIS NARROW FOR THE FEET WIDTH??

I think that one of Despiau's 4/4 bridges has about 6 1/4 inches total width at the feet and that is the closest I can see to mine. I have examined my bass and the exiting bridge foot does seem to be centred over the bass bar.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?

Seems wierd to me to need a 4/4 bridge, because my bass is 3/4 size - the string length is 41.5 inches - is that on the big side for a 3/4?

I got to go now, my 7 year old lad is playing noisily next to me and I am beginning to lose the power of thought.

Ah before I forget, can anyone anwser my other questions from above....

Should I get an adjustable bridge or not?...
Will I want to use a Full Circle Pickup?
And does anyone know a good UK bridge retailer?
and does anyone know a good bass luthier in North West England?

Oh and a new question.. What is the difference between A, B and C quality bridges (except the price) and what would you recommend?

Thanks Dr Rod and Bill for your advice too. I might try the repair just for fun while I decide what bridge to get.

Rick

[Uncletoad]

I would pay someone with experience in making Double Bass Bridges to do it. It's a skill set that takes some time to acquire. To get them right you really need to screw up quite a few.

The only reason to tackle this yourself is because you are a budding luthier. If you are not interested in developing luthier skills and are more interested in playing the bass then I'd spend the money for expert labor. There is value in the understanding of all the subtle things that go into bridge making. These things take some time to learn and are worth far more than they cost to "rent" when you hire a luthier to do the work.

I have some formidable wood and instrument working skills. The bridges on my two basses were made by Nick Lloyd and Arnold Schnitzer. They do a far better job than I could ever do because they do it all day. Conversely Nick Lloyd has me do all the work on his guitars including making a new bridge because I have far more experience in doing that than he does.

[bejoyous]

Also, I can attest from cutting the wings off my bridge that the wood isn't called rock maple for a joke. It is really, really hard! So you need to use a lot of force to carve it which would increase your chances of slipping and doing damage to the bridge or your fingers.

[Eric Swanson]

My 2c is pay a good luthier to both make you a new bridge. They are bound to find other issues (sound post length, placement) that will also be hidden from the inexperienced, non-luthiery eye.

I am a decent cabinetmaker, and its not my first day on the job. That said, I am with UncleToad.

I would rather spend my time playing then bashing around in territory about which I know little. As my old boss used to say, "Sure, you can carve the Christ Child out of a clothespin, by why would you?"

[Rick Middleton]

You know... Lex Luthier...... (SORRY!)

Ok thanks guys, I am getting the message Whilst I do enjoy a bit of woodworking - and I have massively improved the sound of the bass by adjustng the bridge from the state it was in before - my dovetails in school never exactly interlocked, so it's probably safe to say that I wouldn't get cutting a new bridge right first time. And I don't really want to waste my money on failures!

I need to find a luthier who doesn't live too far away.

I'm going to meet up with with Laurence (bassadder) from Overwater next week to try out the Ehrlund EAP with my new EA Doubler and cabs next week, so I can hopefully find out who he recommends.

Any advice on the 'Quality' question? I've seen Despiau bridges advertised at C quality £62, B quality £75, A quality £115. Is the wood just better seasoned and more stable? Should I just see what Lex says?

It would be great to get the soundpost looked at by an expert too.

Rick

[Uncletoad]

Select your luthier carefully and then trust them implicitly.

The more someone with minimal information micromanages someone with expertise the worse the result.

[Jake deVilliers]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Select your luthier carefully and then trust them implicitly.

The more someone with minimal information micromanages someone with expertise the worse the result.

And the more its going to cost you.

[Cody Sisk]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Select your luthier carefully and then trust them implicitly.

The more someone with minimal information micromanages someone with expertise the worse the result.

This quote should be a permanent banner across the top of this forum..

[Rick Middleton]

Looking through eBay the other day, I saw an adjustable bridge going cheap.. private sale...new and unfitted...exactly the right width... and looked to me like a Despiau fitted with brass adjusters. I put a bid on and got it for just £30.03! About the price I would have had to pay just for some adjusters - let alone a new bridge!! So, when it arrived I thought "What the Hell", and went for it. After an afternoons's work the job was done. The feet are looking really good! I left the action a bit high (about 17mm on the E... ouch!) so I could pratice getting the string notches right. The G is a little deep and restricted, but the rest are working well (i.e. better than on my old bridge). Gigged it last night and there seemd to be more low end on the bass - maybe the weighty brass adjusters did the trick - or maybe it was the higher action. I will take a few mm off the top of the bridge tomorrow, put the action closer to how it used to be and see how that affects things. What a bargain! (I still need to get to a luthier in the not too distant future though.)

[Rick Middleton]

True to my word, I removed my new adjustable bridge this morning and took about 8 mm off the top of the bridge, and cut new slots for the strings. The string height at the lowest setting is now about 8mm to the centre of the E and perhaps 6 or 7 at the G, which is about what I have been used to for the last 10 years.

The sound has obviously changed a bit - the fingerboard growl has made a welcome return, and the overall volume is slightly less - but the newly acquired warmth remains!! Yippeee My bass has a much warmer and more balanced tone now. It's lovely

It must be the brass adjusters! The extra weight of them seems to work wonders for my bass, which was previously rather mid heavy.

Who'd have thought it eh? Just goes to show that every bass is different.