All season soundpost vs. summer & winter post?

emilio g · #1 11-16-2009, 07:30 AM

Is having an "all season" sound post strictly a convenience thing, or are there any tonal advantages to this?

MrSidecar · #2 11-16-2009, 08:49 AM

Hi,

is it just me? I´ve heard of people playing with a winter and a summer bridge, but the soundpost? I have never heard of that, and I would consider this rather cumbersome. Changing a bridge is delicate, but a soundpost is luthier´s work, so meet your luthier twice a year just for this? That´s rad.

But again, maybe it´s just me. I´d love to hear more on this.

Best

Sidecar

JoeyNaeger · #3 11-16-2009, 10:09 AM

I think it would depend on how radically your climate changes during the seasons, and how much it affects the sound. I live in a pretty temperate area and have never noticed my basses sound to change through the seasons, so for me, using only one sound post is fine.

Cody Sisk · #4 11-16-2009, 10:20 AM

There are too many variables to consider to make a generalization here.

Though I would say that if you have issues with it moving on you when the seasons change or falling down a lot, having two different posts a year might be warranted. Otherwise what's the point?

Eric Hochberg · #5 11-16-2009, 10:23 AM

It's not just about the sound, but the fact that wood shrinks during the winter in climates like the midwest and n/e due to dry indoor conditions. Winter in these climes call for a shorter post so when the top shrinks the post isn't too tight. I have 4 posts cut for one of my basses, 2 for another, and have been changing them spring and winter since I started playing. Just part of regular maintainance. I would think that sp cracks are due to too tight posts...

Cody Sisk · #6 11-16-2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehochberg

It's not just about the sound, but the fact that wood shrinks during the winter in climates like the midwest and n/e due to dry indoor conditions. Winter in these climes call for a shorter post so when the top shrinks the post isn't too tight. I have 4 posts cut for one of my basses, 2 for another, and have been changing them spring and winter since I started playing. Just part of regular maintainance. I would think that sp cracks are due to too tight posts...

I agree! Perhaps my generalization statement was too generalized.

My bass's top doesn't move more than 1mm or so during the entire year, but my buddy's bass who sits next to me in the symphony will fluctuate 10mm! I haven't even gone into details about our southern climate, too many variables. You just can't generalize on this subject.

Let your luthier make this decision for you. If you have a post in the "sweet spot" and there are no immediate threats to your instrument when season changes happen, why bother?

D McCartney · #7 11-16-2009, 12:25 PM

Aww, just put a bridge adjuster in the middle of it.

emilio g · #8 11-17-2009, 07:15 AM

Ah, I see. The reason I ask is my luthier made a summer and winter post for my bass because it does shrink quite a bit in the winter. But I told my teacher about it and she looked at me like I had a third eye! Her perspective is that you should only need one post year round.

But from reading this I can see that it may just be that her bass is more stable throughout the year than mine is.

Jake deVilliers · #9 11-17-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D McCartney

Aww, just put a bridge adjuster in the middle of it.

I like it! Better yet, skip the adjuster and just thread the post to take a section of threaded aluminium...

drurb · #10 11-17-2009, 12:24 PM

Luthiers, please confirm my information. As I understand it, it is often the case that a fully-carved bass "living" in an area having substantial seasonal changes (e.g., the northeastern US), will need a summer and winter post. This isn't because the post falls down in the summer but because (as noted above) some basses shrink enough in the winter such that the post will be tighter than what is optimal and this can affect the sound (and, in very rare cases, damage the top). For such basses, one can have a post fitted in the winter and keep it through the summer because the tension will be reduced. This, too, could affect the sound and it may also be true that the post could be loose enough to fall as soon as the strings are de-tensioned (but why de-tension all the strings?). So, the idea is that if you have a carved bass, say in the northeast, have a post fit in the winter (although the sound may not be optimal in the summer). Some carved tops just don't move all that much in such environments and, for them, all of this is a non-issue. Let your luthier be your guide. I guess what puzzled me most is that a teacher who lives in the northeast would think that the idea of winter and summer posts is a strange.

Jake deVilliers · #11 11-17-2009, 01:16 PM

Doc, the only problem with your theory is that it would put quite a bit of stress on the belly of an instrument with large seasonal changes. The top would be 'pinched' down to meet the now-too-short post which isn't good for the belly or the tone.

I won't try to explain the teacher's position - she must have a stable bass.

drurb · #12 11-17-2009, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Doc, the only problem with your theory is that it would put quite a bit of stress on the belly of an instrument with large seasonal changes. The top would be 'pinched' down to meet the now-too-short post which isn't good for the belly or the tone.

I won't try to explain the teacher's position - she must have a stable bass.

Understood. I really wasn't thinking of an instrument with large changes and I didn't make that clear at all. I just thought that if you were gonna cheat slightly in one direction or another, better to stay with the shorter post. I see how that's not such a hot idea either and, of course, better to always have the proper length post. This is why I let my trusted luthier make these calls and why I don't touch that stuff.

Thanks for the info.

Mark Perna · #13 11-17-2009, 07:04 PM

I only use one post per bass. The basses definitely sounds better in the fall, winter and spring though. In the late summer, they get a little thumpy. I've never had problems with damage on any of them. I've long thought that a second post would make playing in late August more enjoyable but the period that is most annoying is so short that I haven't bothered and it's not THAT bad even at it's worst. Mike Shank cut and set them.

mark

William Hoffman · #14 11-17-2009, 11:53 PM

I had a sound post that was too short, by about 1 mm. It would fall over when the strings were loosened. I only realized this when I saw that its position wasn't in line with where a post usually ought to be. It wasn't long enough to fit well at the classic spot 1 SP width underneath and in line with the center of the G bridge foot. The only place where it was snug was more or less out beyond the bridge foot, towards the f-hole.

That post fit ok in winter, but not during the warmer months, from May through October. The sound was of course affected, but what made me change it was the realization that if the sound post is too short, the top has to be pressed down that extra mm, adding to the stress. So it's not just the winter months when a post might be "too long" that it can do damage, also the summer months if the post is too short.

Two luthiers who post here on TB (Arnold and Jay) suggested maybe I needed a summer and winter post. The new summer post went in mid-August and I was amazed at the improvement in sound. On that bass I have Spiro Mittels, and so I was concerned about the tension on the top. Now the bass rings out better, better sustain.

Eric Hochberg · #15 11-19-2009, 08:34 AM

Glad it worked out for you! Just had posts changed in both basses, big difference in sound and feel. Sometimes, with gradual changes you don't realize what you're missing.

William Hoffman · #16 11-19-2009, 08:45 AM

oh now i remember, eric, you also chimed to suggest i do the summer/winter post thing. thanks, good advice! i have taken that advice and je ne regrette rien!

it's really amazing, you don't notice the deterioration of sound until you put in a post that really fits nicely. then, zinnng! the bass just rings out with a presence of sound that was missing.