American Standard...Neck falling

ctregan · #1 06-29-2008, 08:47 PM

This started to happen about 2-3 months ago and continued to get worse.

The neck would pull to one side.

You can see in the pictures the neck is no longer being held in a straight line with the body.

ctregan · #2 06-29-2008, 08:50 PM

Could not adjust the bridge enough to compensate.

Uncletoad · #3 06-29-2008, 08:54 PM

I'd take it to Arnold Schnitzer AES basses and have him either rebuild the joint or do a neck graft as he chose.

ctregan · #4 06-29-2008, 09:09 PM

Does Arnold accept basses in parts?

ctregan · #5 06-29-2008, 09:33 PM

I tried to repair the block from the outside, removed the neck, rebuilt the joint.
It was great for a two or three weeks, then neck started to lean once more.

It realized it must have a faulty neck block, here is a close up photo;

What would be a good solution? replace the block and cut a new joint (or should i just take it to Arnold's?)

**Matthew Tucker** · #6 06-30-2008, 01:23 AM

So what's actually giving way? I assume nothing is bending, so something must be moving somewhere, opening a crack somewhere. The block looks OK from here. Maybe you'd be better off filling in the crusty-looking dovetail altogether, both on the neck and block, flattening the sides of the neck root and fitting the neck into a new "italian-style"(?) mortise.

ctregan · #7 06-30-2008, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

So what's actually giving way? I assume nothing is bending, so something must be moving somewhere, opening a crack somewhere. The block looks OK from here.

The block has no strength on either side of the dovetail. The wood is so thin, it bends easily and does not hold the neck tightly.

The rest of the block below the female dovetail is solid.

superman · #8 06-30-2008, 11:15 AM

This seems to be the big fault with these basses I have owned a dozen or more A/S and King basses and have seen quite a few with the necks doing the same as your is,I had Dustin Williams reset a neck for me in a King once and he did a great job,,But i don't think mine had a block issue ,the heel had been all butcherd up in the one I had. ,, you might give him a call I'm sure he can tell you what he's encountered working on them.I have a A/S right now thats has 3 heel cracks and it moving a bit ,I need to go see him myself,,but I know he's slammed right now,I think he had 4 or 5 A/S basses alone to be repaired/setup,,not including all the others,,,,

Jake deVilliers · #9 06-30-2008, 02:04 PM

"The block has no strength on either side of the dovetail."

That's partly from the way the grain is oriented too. I'd be tempted to make a new block with the grain running 90 degrees from the present orientation. Kay blocks are like that and stand up pretty well.

You might do as Matthew suggested and turn it into a mortise and tenon at the same time, giving you a little more wood at the top sides and a better connection with the rest of the block.

Poplar might add a little strength too or mahogany or walnut if you're feeling adventurous.

Doing all three would surely make that joint sufficiently stable.

ctregan · #10 06-30-2008, 03:24 PM

Thanks for the replies. I have heard that old American Standards can have these problems but, it should be repairable.

Other than the neck issues, its been a great bass!

RCWilliams · #11 06-30-2008, 03:39 PM

just curious, was the dove tail socket bushed once before? the color variation makes me wonder, also if you flex the rib at the top of the socket does it show horizontal cracks parallel with the bottom of the socket? if so, I think it would be best to replace the block,

good luck

ctregan · #12 07-01-2008, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCWilliams

just curious, was the dove tail socket bushed once before? the color variation makes me wonder, also if you flex the rib at the top of the socket does it show horizontal cracks parallel with the bottom of the socket? if so, I think it would be best to replace the block,

good luck

You have described the problem exactly, Thanks for posting.

arnoldschnitzer · #13 07-02-2008, 05:56 AM

CT, I agree with Rick that you should probably replace the neck block. As you are building a complete bass I bet you are totally capable of doing that job. Build a little plywood frame to hold the shape on the top side before you remove the old block, though. Otherwise you will go nuts trying to make the new block to the right shape. Also consider converting the neck to a standard mortise. And consider shortening it a bit and giving it more overstand.

ctregan · #14 07-06-2008, 04:32 AM

I removed the neck block and the upper half of the bass fell apart; ribs were flopping around, and the back was loose from the corner blocks up.

The block had to be removed with a chisel in a chip out method. Found some screws imbedded in the block along with some pockets of epoxy. Took some time to get it cleaned out and ready for a new block.

ctregan · #15 07-06-2008, 04:43 AM

Used some modern abrasives to help shape it.

ctregan · #16 07-06-2008, 04:47 AM

Then I lovingly placed it on my workbench next to some hand tools for the "handcrafted portrait".

ctregan · #17 07-06-2008, 04:53 AM

Double Basses are the hardest things on earth to figure out how to clamp.

Photo #2: block glued in with mortice uncut.

ctregan · #18 07-06-2008, 04:58 AM

Next is the heel.

The neck is not original to the bass and has had some odd repairs. It might be easier to buy a new one than make this one work.

It is a mess.

**Matthew Tucker** · #19 07-06-2008, 05:37 AM

I might be wrong, but from here, it doesn't look like you left enough width at the top of the block for the neck to sit on or mortise into. A standard mortised neck block is about 6-8mm wider than the neck root to ensure there is a good thickness of wood at the sides. If the top of your new block is as narrow as it looks, the only way to fit a standard neck into that would be to cut the whole top off the block and sit the neck lower in the block.

Does the top still fit? or is there a bigger overhang now at the top edges?

ctregan · #20 07-06-2008, 08:40 AM

I plan on trimming the top of the block down flat to expose greater width for the heel insertion.

Top fits good.

This bass was very narrow at the neck join point, 1 5/8" maybe (reason the falling neck problem?). The string length is 43" so there is some room to drop it down by trimming a bit off the top.