Bass Bar Issue?

Jerry Dee · #1 04-17-2011, 10:23 AM

While having my 1930's Juzek fingerboard replaced it acquired a new problem in the shop that is most likely internal. Depending on the weather and also after playing it hard for 20-30 minutes, the bass becomes extremely over-resonate, especially any A I play. The whole bass vibrates and creates very loud, muddy sympathetic vibrations. I've had two other luthiers look at it and it is almost surely nothing exterior or the sound post causing this. What else besides the bass bar or two inside patches on the bottom could be the problem? I plan on taking it to The David Gage Shop in NYC and am trying to get some idea of what the cause of this problem could be. It's been seriously detrimental to my performances. Please send advice/ideas. Thank you.
Jerry Dee

Eric Hochberg · #2 04-17-2011, 10:55 AM

Sounds like a wolf tone. Try damping the tailpiece or adding a wolftone eliminator. The added weight of the new FB may have caused this.

PaulCannon · #3 04-17-2011, 11:28 AM

A proper wolf tone would likely have been present to begin with, although there's a chance it was always there but is now exacerbated by the change in fingerboard. It's possible your new fingerboard is neatly tuned to an A, sort of like a marimba bar. You could un-tune it a little either by adding or removing mass from the underside of the fingerboard. A couple grams of putty could be enough to do the trick and would be preferable to a wolf eliminator.

I don't think the bass bar is to blame. Was anything other than the fingerboard changed or worked on?

Jerry Dee · #4 04-17-2011, 03:41 PM

I originally went to the first luthier to have a buzz fixed. He sanded the board down several times, was unable to remove the buzz, but during this process is when the bass acquired this problem, so the luthier thought maybe it was due to the amount of mass he removed from the original fingerboard, so he replaced it, but the problem was stil there. Two luthiers later, and after just about everything else that could be done externally was done, the problem is still there. Everyone is pretty sure it's not a wolf tone.The bridge has been replaced, we tried wolf-tone eliminators, have adjusted and readjusted the sound-post, changed the length of the tail piece cable, glued all the seems, etc... it has to be something internal...
Thanks for your responses.

Eric Hochberg · #5 04-17-2011, 11:50 PM

another thought, is the neck solid in the block?

uprightben · #6 04-18-2011, 05:14 AM

Did you replace the strings? They could have been damaged internally with all of the taking off and putting back on. You really present a head scratcher, the fact that your problems tend to develop after playing for a while is quite mysterious to me. Best of luck to you, Gage has a great reputation, maybe he can work it out.

Jonathan74 · #7 04-19-2011, 10:09 AM

I am recently in the exact same situation. I have spend plenty of money on luthiers and my bass is really easy to play now but the buzzing sound, that was the original problem, did not go away. Also it now sounds like a big metal bathtub.
The luthiers I've used has told me that they have to open up the bass to find the problem, bet even then they will not give any garanties.
If you find the solution, please let me know.

gbaker · #8 04-19-2011, 11:50 AM

If I were in your situation I would get a stethoscope, even a toy one, and have someone play a resonate note just loud enough to get the buzz while I tried to determine the source.

Just an idea, this may be totally useless, but I would give it a shot.

Luck.

Jonathan74 · #9 04-19-2011, 02:21 PM

It´s actually not a bad idea. I'll try it since I'm quite desperate. I'm not able to accept any jobs or set up any gigs myself, because of the bass. It is so bad, that the buzz is amplified through my Realist and make it sound like a very big distorted guitar.
I have been able to get the buzz to dissapear by pressing down on the front or pressing my knee to the back on the bass. Since this is not very easy to do while playing and probably very bad for the bass, I will not consider this a solution

I'll give the stetoscope a go. Thanks!

Don Higdon · #10 04-19-2011, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Dee

. Please send advice/ideas. Thank you.
Jerry Dee

Where are you?
Please fill out your profile.

gbaker · #11 04-20-2011, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan74

...
I have been able to get the buzz to dissapear by pressing down on the front or pressing my knee to the back on the bass. ...

Really! What do the front and back have in common? You could be putting pressure both directions on the sound post, the neck joint (against your left hand pressure), the end pin, socket or lower body (end pin wedging against the floor).

It is not the bass bar, pushing on the back wouldn't affect it. Likewise it is most likely not the scroll, tuners, bridge, nut, strings, saddle, tailpiece or gut. Probably not the finger board or back or front plates themselves.

Try sideways pressure on the near rib to stress the end pin / socked or rib/plate joint at the bottom. My bet is the end pin/socket.

Then, what if you don't hold the neck while you are pressing, grab the body only - eliminate the neck and joint as problems.

If none of the above points to the problem, did you bump the sound post around any? Try that.

PaulCannon · #12 04-20-2011, 12:29 AM

The sound post could be too short. It's long enough to stay put when the strings are on, but it may still be a soft fit.

fdeck · #13 04-20-2011, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan74

It´s actually not a bad idea. I'll try it since I'm quite desperate. I'm not able to accept any jobs or set up any gigs myself, because of the bass. It is so bad, that the buzz is amplified through my Realist and make it sound like a very big distorted guitar.
I have been able to get the buzz to dissapear by pressing down on the front or pressing my knee to the back on the bass. Since this is not very easy to do while playing and probably very bad for the bass, I will not consider this a solution

I'll give the stetoscope a go. Thanks!

I had a problem that was only associated with my amplified tone. So I tapped on different parts of my bass with my thumb while listening through the amp until I found a part that made the offensive tone.

Stuff hanging from your afterlengths, like the output jack of your pickup, could be causing this problem.

Jonathan74 · #14 06-16-2011, 09:21 AM

Mystery solved.

I can't believe it!
The buzzing sound is gone. My new luthier found out that it was just the label inside the bass, that wasn't proper glued to the back and made vibration noices.