Is this bass carved or pressed?

Wal Pawlik · #1 05-29-2009, 09:21 PM

I have a Chinese bass that i bought new and cost me about $2000 US and to my eye it looks like it has a solid top. I can even make out a seam down the centre of the top plate and also the back. I am curious to know is this top carved or is there some process where a solid piece of timber can be pressed to shape.
I have examined the end grain of the timber at the edges and the ffs and it looks to me like solid wood, no laminations like ply. Internally the surfaces look very smooth.
If it was carved, would not there be unevenness in the surface?
What do you experts think?

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #2 05-29-2009, 09:56 PM

I'm not sure the two are mutually exclusive.

simonwilmer · #3 05-29-2009, 10:32 PM

Looks similar to the Chinese Hofner basket case I bought last year to fix up , Yeah I have heard about the Pressed solid wood tops ,never seen one tho , when the main carving is done ,smoothing is completed with scrapers thus no chisel marks .

**Matthew Tucker** · #4 05-30-2009, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wal Pawlik

Internally the surfaces look very smooth.
If it was carved, would not there be unevenness in the surface?

Sandpaper exists.

Andrew McGregor · #5 05-30-2009, 07:30 AM

Normally the inside of a carved bass is pretty close to the same surface quality as the outside... unvarnished, but otherwise well finished. So that won't tell you. There should be evidence in the grain pattern, but you'd have to be an expert on woodgrain to spot that.

RCWilliams · #6 05-30-2009, 09:05 AM

pressing a solid wood plate/table can be done but it is not the easiest way. the highest probability is that the top is carved. the f hole will have relatively straight grain the easiest place to see the grain differences between a pressed and a carved top would be where the center line crosses the most thickness. since you have a sealed and finished surface, seeing the difference between edge grain and end grain carved at a shallow angle would be difficult any way.

robobass · #7 05-30-2009, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCWilliams

pressing a solid wood plate/table can be done but it is not the easiest way. ...

Yeah, I think pressing was done in the 70's and 80's, but with the advent of cheap CNC technology, I doubt it's being done anymore (howerer, you do use up less wood pressing!). The telltale sign of a pressed bass (vs. carved) would be a uniformity of top thickness. The area around the bridge and soundpost will be a bit thicker on a proper carved instrument. This wouldn't be easy to verify without taking the top off, but an expert can get some idea of wood thickness by tapping and listening.

ArenW · #8 05-30-2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robobass

This wouldn't be easy to verify without taking the top off, but an expert can get some idea of wood thickness by tapping and listening.

Or for the low, low price of $399.00, you could use one of these:
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Me...ess_Gauge.html

bassist14 · #9 05-30-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robobass

Yeah, I think pressing was done in the 70's and 80's,

it´s done right now, next to you (and me):
there is a german tonewood factory where you can order pressed tops and backs.

if you want, i can look for their website and post a link

robobass · #10 05-30-2009, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassist14

it´s done right now, next to you (and me): there is a german tonewood factory where you can order pressed tops and backs. if you want, i can look for their website and post a link

I had no idea!

Gary Lynch · #11 05-30-2009, 07:31 PM

Labour is not expensive in China. I bet it's carved. There are very few if any pressed tops selling anywhere these days. Carved by a machine that is.

Wal Pawlik · #12 05-30-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassist14

it´s done right now, next to you (and me):
there is a german tonewood factory where you can order pressed tops and backs.

if you want, i can look for their website and post a link

Thanks bassist, that would be interesting.

Wal Pawlik · #13 05-30-2009, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

Sandpaper exists.

When you build your fine instruments do you ensure that the inside is finished to the same high quality as the exterior? Even with the greatest pride in workmanship and quality is it necessary to have such a high finish internally?
This particular instrument has an internal finish that is indeed very smooth.
Even, made in China it would be very labour intensitive and expensive to produce such a finish by hand, hence my original question.

Gary Lynch · #14 05-30-2009, 09:20 PM

If it makes any difference or helps you, I have a Chinese, carved (CNC) solid wood bass ( spruce top, maple back and sides). I paid less than you did. They were ordered by Adam Juzek, and has the Juzek logo/paper label inside. I just checked the inside of my bass with a mirror. The top is very smooth, not rough anywhere. I assume a part of the process is cleaning up the bottom. With today's tools and skilled builders that work at lightening speed in China, I do not find it difficult to believe yours is not also a CNC special built like hundreds of others they are making. Just think what many of the resellers are paying wholesale, less than we did that's for sure. Remember these are FACTORY basses, assembly line so-to-speak. While I cannot speak for your bass, mine, that cost less than yours, is a CNC/carved spruce top for sure, not pressed.

Gearhead43 · #15 05-30-2009, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Lynch

If it makes any difference or helps you, I have a Chinese, carved (CNC) solid wood bass ( spruce top, maple back and sides). I paid less than you did. They were ordered by Adam Juzek, and has the Juzek logo/paper label inside. I just checked the inside of my bass with a mirror. The top is very smooth, not rough anywhere. I assume a part of the process is cleaning up the bottom. With today's tools and skilled builders that work at lightening speed in China, I do not find it difficult to believe yours is not also a CNC special built like hundreds of others they are making. Just think what many of the resellers are paying wholesale, less than we did that's for sure. Remember these are FACTORY basses, assembly line so-to-speak. While I cannot speak for your bass, mine, that cost less than yours, is a CNC/carved spruce top for sure, not pressed.

How does she sound? That's the important thing, IMO.

Wal Pawlik · #16 05-31-2009, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead43

How does she sound? That's the important thing, IMO.

Not terrifically great. I always thought carved basses where supposed to be sonically superior to laminates. So my original question.

Gary Lynch · #17 05-31-2009, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead43

How does she sound? That's the important thing, IMO.

Mine sounds great for what I paid. I have a Shen SB 180 and also a SB 90. The solid spruce/maple carved bass is louder (by far) and articulates better with ease. It was a great bargain I think. But I like the plywoods for low humidity locations. Who wants to worry about cracks?

Gary Lynch · #18 05-31-2009, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wal Pawlik

Not terrifically great. I always thought carved basses where supposed to be sonically superior to laminates. So my original question.

I assume you had it set up well and are using good strings?

bassist14 · #19 05-31-2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wal Pawlik

Thanks bassist, that would be interesting.

fritz kollitz, fine tonewood.
if you click here:
http://www.margotschumannedv.de/koll...amestreich.htm

a 3mb pdf will open
scroll down to page 5:

"Tops & Backs Double Bass solid pressed
3/4 Size 1/2 Size
solid 8 mm thickness, pressed"

not much info there, but i know somebody who worked there, and he knows who buys there...

Gary Lynch · #20 05-31-2009, 10:25 AM

That's for a laminated bass. I would assume all plywood tops are pressed, how else can they get that shape? The photos of Pawlick's rig look carved judging by the edges of the f-holes. But I did notice his purfling looked painted, not inlaid but even the Shen SB 180 hybrid does not inlay those either. My Chinese carved has inlaid.

I was amazed to find out how may types of plywood there are for instruments.