Bass isn't the same after repair. What to do?

[RadicalDad]

Several weeks ago I dropped my bass while leaving the stage. Grrrr. This is a 1960's era German factory carved bass. The top was damaged where it hit the ground. It hit on the edge of the top and crushed the wood going past the purfling. This is on the G string side between "4 o'clock" and "5 o'clock" in the lower bout.

To repair it, the luthier took the top off altogether. While the top was off, he also did some other work to the bass, fixing loose cleats and the like. One of the major things he did was to refine an old repair he felt was done poorly. The top has cracks on each side of an inset "tailpiece wire guide" (sorry, I don't know what that is called). On the G string side, that crack travels 6 inches or more toward the bridge. The old repair consists of wood reinforcements on the south side of the top (underneath of course), at the edge of the top, that run from the "tailpiece wire guide" area and curve upward, following the edge of the top where it meets the sides. My luthier felt the reinforcement was much heavier than it needed to be and thinned it out.

Now that I have the bass back, it doesn't play like it used to. The D string is overly strong, the A string sounds dead along its entire length, and the E string is stronger than it used to be in the lower notes. In thumb position, both the A and E string have wolf tones starting just above the octave (at B and F#) and running for several notes. The bass used to be sweet in this area. While the stronger low E string notes are welcome, I'd rather have the whole thing be smooth and even like it once was.

The bridge is now about .2" south of where I used to have it. It was moved north to keep the string length from going above 42". I'll try moving it later today, but I don't expect that will change much. At least it didn't seem to have much affect on the sound prior to this repair.

The luthier is more than willing to adjust the sound post, but I was wondering if there are other things, short of removing the top again, that might be helpful. Or might all this go away with a sound post adjustment?

Thanks
Bruce Morris

[svenbass]

In my experience, I seem to notice any little change/adjustment and it takes a bit me to acclimate. It can be frustrating for sure!

As far as your situation, having the top taken off is a bit like open heart surgery and it is going to take a little bit for the bass to open back up. A few soundpost adjustments as things settle should get it back into it's former glory. It sounds like you have a good luthier to work with, so a little patience (I know, easier said than done ) and you will be back in business .... if anything the bass will sound even better! Good luck man!!

[Uncletoad]

I think it's important to share all of this with the person who did the work and see how they'd like to respond. Have you done so yet? What did they say?

[Jake deVilliers]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

I think it's important to share all of this with the person who did the work and see how they'd like to respond. Have you done so yet? What did they say?

+1 I'm sure your luthier wants your bass to be its best.

[RadicalDad]

Phil and Jake -

Thanks so much for the reply. I'm not in any way disappointed with my luthier, nor am I afraid to take it back to him. As much as anything, I'm trying to be an informed consumer and understand my instrument that much better. I know that relative strength of the strings can be affected by sound post placement. This bass has always been picky that way. But the wolf tone thing scares me. Can a sound post adjustment really remove (or create) wolf tones? And if my luthier suggests something else to try, it always feels good to know that I heard that from someone else too.

Others, including Sven and my bass teacher have suggested I play it in for a few days before taking it back, just to see how it loosens up. So, we'll see. And if anyone has other suggestions, I'm still listening.

Thanks,
Bruce Morris

[MIKMAN]

In my limited experience i noticed that moving the soundpost towards the G foot reinforces the sound of the E and A strings because it allows the bass bar to vibrate better. The dead A string sometimes indicates a soundpost longer than needed, which "chokes" the A string. If the soundpost is now located closer to the G foot, maybe it has reached a point where it presses the two plates stronger than before the repair and it affects the A string.
These are only wellhearted guesses, the only solution is going to be provided by your luthier.
Mike

[Nuno A.]

I agree that you should talk with your luthier about your problems, however keep in mind that when a bass is opened it will need some time until it starts sounding and feeling at its best, i had major repairs made to my bass, the top was off, lots of cracks repaired, bass bar, etc, i have the bass back for 4 months now and i just started to feel the bass getting loose and really playable in this last month. just my 0.02$

Nuno

[robobass]

Originally Posted by RadicalDad

... My luthier felt the reinforcement was much heavier than it needed to be and thinned it out.

Now that I have the bass back, it doesn't play like it used to. The D string is overly strong, the A string sounds dead along its entire length, and the E string is stronger than it used to be in the lower notes. ...
Bruce Morris

I had a similar situation. I had an accident and had the top off my Pfretzchner for the first time in many many years. There were lots of loose cleats and stuff, including a huge horizontal brace below the bassbar. It practically fell off when we touched it, and my luthier replaced it with two beautiful and very light S - shaped braces.

After setting it back up, I have much the situation you describe. The top is extremely thin and also sunken in this spot - could it be that the old brace was intentionally left so heavy for tonal reasons? With SP adjustments and playing it in it has gotten somewhat better. I like the added lower resonance, but I miss the firmer and quicker feel I used to have on the A string. I'm thinking of asking my luthier try to reach in and lightly glue a block of wood to that spot and see how it affects things.

[RadicalDad]

I took the bass back to the luthier for a sound post adjustment, then ran off to rehearsal. Its much better now with far fewer wolf tones (hmmmm, how could there have been so many in the first place?) All of the strings now speak more evenly. The A is still a little weak, but it was always that way. The lower notes on the E are still stronger than before the repair (a welcome change), but it now speaks in line with the other strings. The D isn't as obnoxiously prominent.

The wolf tone is now confined to a much smaller tonal area. It is centered at Bb, just above the octave on the A string. Seems to be a classic spot for a wolf, though it wasn't there before the accident. Playing the same pitch on the E string also wolfs, but not as badly. Oddly, there is no trace of the wolf at this pitch on the G string. The octave A harmonic also wants to wolf, which kinda bites as I am using this pitch for a drone in our next concert. Now its hard to control.

Mikman suggested that the sound post might be too long, but I doubt that. It falls out easily when the strings are loose. Happened today when we went to move the bridge.

This bass has always been very sensitive to sound post placement to get the strings to speak evenly. Except for the wolf, I'm really liking what I've got now, so I'm not excited to try another adjustment for fear my luthier won't find this sweet spot again.

So, would further sound post adjustments be likely to eliminate the wolf? If not, what else might I try?

I've read that different strings sometimes help. I play Evah Pirazzis now, but my teacher has been encouraging me to try Spirocores on the bottom two and Olivs on the top two. Methinks the Spirocores would be heavier than what I've got, and that is going the wrong direction for a wolf problem. Right?

My teacher also suggested trying the "voodoo" cure: tuning the afterlength. He's never seen a bass where this has been done, but he's heard interesting things. Jake, does your process help with wolf tones?

Thanks,
Bruce

[Andrew McGregor]

Afterlength tuning, damping and weights on the strings in the afterlength can all help with wolf notes, as can adding or removing weight from the tailpiece. So, retuning the afterlength is a good first step in trying to deal with those. The soundpost won't, it's about tonal balance within and between the strings.

Wolf notes occur when something other than the string resonates strongly near a particular note; this is usually the tailpiece or afterlength, occasionally the endpin, very occasionally part of the bridge or the fingerboard. To track it down you can have someone else try damping things with their hands; ordinarily the part that is creating the wolf vibrates rather strongly.

[Jake deVilliers]

Bruce, both the afterlength tuning and the tailpiece mode-matching seem to 'even out' the bass. That fuzzy B on the A string, the soft F# on the E string go away.
It won't turn your DB into a Schnitzer but these processes really smooth and equalise the response across the strings and up and down the fingerboard.

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by Andrew McGregor

Afterlength tuning, damping and weights on the strings in the afterlength can all help with wolf notes, as can adding or removing weight from the tailpiece. So, retuning the afterlength is a good first step in trying to deal with those. The soundpost won't, it's about tonal balance within and between the strings.

Wolf notes occur when something other than the string resonates strongly near a particular note; this is usually the tailpiece or afterlength, occasionally the endpin, very occasionally part of the bridge or the fingerboard. To track it down you can have someone else try damping things with their hands; ordinarily the part that is creating the wolf vibrates rather strongly.

+1.
The "weight" Andrew is refering to, I'm sure, is a wolf tone eliminator. Has always worked great on most basses IME.