Bass luthier Luke Medley?

plucker · #1 08-26-2006, 11:45 PM

I just read an article on a fellow in Missouri who builds basses. His name is Luke Medley and was just wondering if any bass players in the region has seen or played one.

**Matthew Tucker** · #2 08-30-2006, 06:06 PM

Luke Medley basses

is this the article?

http://www.ruralmissouri.org/05pages/05MayBass.html

He says he's built 80 of them and sells them at $700 apiece. With a scroll cut on a bandsaw and two bass bars!

Don Higdon · #3 08-31-2006, 05:51 AM

I notice the article says he makes "standup acoustical basses."
Are we clear on what he makes?

Don Higdon · #4 08-31-2006, 06:01 AM

Rereading, that article has some interesting revelations, e.g., "Unlike orchestra basses, each string on a Medley bass projects the same volume — and it’s a thunderous, room-filling volume at that."
Do not let Ken Smith see this.

Jeff Bollbach · #5 08-31-2006, 08:06 AM

Actually I think one of Kens "mystery basses" may be a Medley.

Bob Branstetter · #6 08-31-2006, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Higdon

Rereading, that article has some interesting revelations

Now we know that a truck and some heavy rocks are not a good substitute for a steam press if you want to make bass tops from a sheet of plywood.

PB+J · #7 08-31-2006, 11:11 AM

It seems to me that getting rid of the soundpost--treating it more like an archtop guitar--would maybe have an interesting effect. If you're never going to use the bow, why keep a structural component--the soundpost--designed for bowing? I've never seen or heard one--they may sound awful for all I know. I can just see the point of losing the sound post

**Matthew Tucker** · #8 08-31-2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PB+J

It seems to me that getting rid of the soundpost--treating it more like an archtop guitar--would maybe have an interesting effect.

its seems less silly than the other alternative some people have tried, which is adding a second soundpost.

he's not the first to do it - the european bass "berda" I believe is made that way.

nicklloyd · #9 08-31-2006, 03:13 PM

A plywood bass without a soundpost and two bass bars would be loud, but quite raw. Suitable for pluckin', but terrible for arco.

Bob Branstetter · #10 08-31-2006, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

its seems less silly than the other alternative some people have tried, which is adding a second soundpost.

he's not the first to do it - the european bass "berda" I believe is made that way.

Right you are. I converted a Berda bass a few years ago. Here is a photo of the top before I remove all of the bass bars. It had two conventional size bass bars and one slightly smaller one down the center. Of course, that isn't the only thing that was different on this Berda bass. The bridge was about 1 inch tall and the neck has frets extending down on to the top.

drurb · #11 08-31-2006, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PB+J

...If you're never going to use the bow, why keep a structural component--the soundpost--designed for bowing?

Huh? The soundpost is "designed" for bowing?

Moreso than, say, a host of other components like the bass bar, bridge, etc.? That is, it seems that the entire instrument was fundamentally designed for arco. I am not aware that the soundpost is any more specific to arco than any other part. Even if it were, I'm sure I don't want to change the design even if I were to never use the bow. It would certainly be a different instrument. I've really grown attached to the notion of having a soundpost.

drurb · #12 08-31-2006, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

Right you are. I converted a Berda bass a few years ago. Here is a photo of the top before I remove all of the bass bars. It had two conventional size bass bars and one slightly smaller one down the center. Of course, that isn't the only thing that was different on this Berda bass. The bridge was about 1 inch tall and the neck has frets extending down on to the top.

So, uh... could you call it a bass as originally built? I mean if it has three "bass" bars and no soundpost, is it still a double bass or is it something else? Yeah, I know, it's a "slippery slope" question.

**Matthew Tucker** · #13 08-31-2006, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRURB

So, uh... could you call it a bass as originally built?

If it plays bass notes, it's a bass.

Bob never said it was a double bass ...

Bob Branstetter · #14 08-31-2006, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

If it plays bass notes, it's a bass.

Bob never said it was a double bass ...

The interesting thing is that after the conversion, it turned out to be a very good bowing double bass for a classical player. The only thing I had to do to the top was replace the 3 bars with one conventional bar. The top graduation was totally normal. This bass was made in Germany, so I suspect that it probably came out of one of the shops that usually made conventional double basses.

nicklloyd · #15 08-31-2006, 09:50 PM

The Berda bass (and others like it) is designed to be played with a large pick. There are usually wear marks from the picking action near the 10th-12th fret. The low bridge, frets, twin bass bars, and pick lends itself to the sound of an oversized guitar. I'm not sure if Luke Medley is inspired by the Berda design, though.

drurb · #16 08-31-2006, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

If it plays bass notes, it's a bass.

Bob never said it was a double bass ...

Fair enough.

PB+J · #17 09-01-2006, 06:27 AM

Drurb, I was once part of a long debate by several makers of archtop guitars about the archtop's relation to the violin family. The inventors of the archtop guitar were clearly nfluenced by the violin or cello. It has an arched top and back, and f-holes like a violin, but instead of a soundpost it has what might be called a second bass bar--parralel braces like the Medley bass has. The discussion was about whether or not a soundpost would be good in a guitar, and the consensus--from people who had tried it--was that it decreased sound output and dynamic range on a plucked instrument like a guitar. There was a long discussion about how a soundpost made special sense if the instrument was to be bowed.

So I assume what Medley does is make the bass more like an archtop guitar, and I suspect that could have some advantages if you only ever play pizz

drurb · #18 09-01-2006, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PB+J

Drurb, I was once part of a long debate by several makers of archtop guitars about the archtop's relation to the violin family. The inventors of the archtop guitar were clearly nfluenced by the violin or cello. It has an arched top and back, and f-holes like a violin, but instead of a soundpost it has what might be called a second bass bar--parralel braces like the Medley bass has. The discussion was about whether or not a soundpost would be good in a guitar, and the consensus--from people who had tried it--was that it decreased sound output and dynamic range on a plucked instrument like a guitar. There was a long discussion about how a soundpost made special sense if the instrument was to be bowed.

So I assume what Medley does is make the bass more like an archtop guitar, and I suspect that could have some advantages if you only ever play pizz

Thank you for clarifying. Your answer goes exactly to my question. So it seems that some individuals, at least, believed, on the basis of its apparently detrimental effect in a guitar, that it would be beneficial to remove the soundpost of a double bass if the latter were to be played exclusively pizzicato.

It may, indeed, be the case that such a re-design of our beloved instrument would lend a more powerful sound to pizzicato. I am in no position to confirm or deny that. For me, it is simply that the general character of the instrument we all love might be altered in some fundamental fashion by doing so such that "the sound" may now be something all too different. To be sure, not all double basses sound the same anyway!

Now, I simply don't know enough about the science to know how the current design of the bass as we know it has been optimized for output. I do know that the soundpost creates a beneficial node of vibration on the table. Whether the presence of that node sacrifices acoustic output in service to a specific desired tonal quality, I simply do not know. Perhaps others will chime in.

For now, I'm keeping my soundpost.

Thanks again for the reply.

PB+J · #19 09-01-2006, 07:59 AM

me too--i love the sound of the double bass as it is. It's just an interesting discussion point. I've never tried a bass with no soundpost and probably, as nick said, it would sound pretty "raw." But since I play mostly pizz, using the bow mostly for intonation training, I'd be interested in seeing what you could do if you built a bass optimized for pizz

Bob Branstetter · #20 09-01-2006, 03:56 PM

I've long believed that other than being made (mostly) out of wood and having strings, guitars and violin family instruments are as different as night and day. The great guitar maker Antonio deTorres, generally considered to be the father of the modern guitar, once built a guitar with a spruce top and paper mache back and sides to prove his theory that it was the top that produced most of the volume. He increased the size of the guitar body and experimented with anything that would improve the sound and volume. The inside of the guitar body is a simple Helmholtz resonator or acoustic amplifier. The violin family uses the soundpost to transfer the vibrations to the back and the the entire structure vibrates to produce sound. I once heard the CAS "swiss cheese" violin demonstated, where the ribs of the violin has hundreds of small holes drilled in it that are covered with small cork stoppers. It was amazing to hear how little the volume decreased until 70-80% or more of the the corks had been removed. If the soundpost is missing, the volume decreases since a violin or doublebass simply does not have enough internal air volume to be a good Helmholtz resonator like a guitar on the lowest frequencies. An upright version of the Mariachi Guitarron would probably be a better design than a double bass bar doublebass for producing volume while playing pizz. Tone quality, of course, is an entirely different animal and I don't even want to go there.