Bass responsiveness or quickness over time

Don Harris · #1 12-12-2007, 11:56 AM

I'm wondering if the responsiveness changes as a new bass breaks in over the first few weeks. I'm generally happy with the tone of my new bass, but the A and E aren't quite as quick with a bow as I would like. Can setup issues affect this (soundpost... bridge...)? Would a smaller bass be prone to this over a larger bass?

Darren Molnar · #2 12-12-2007, 12:50 PM

My experience with the smaller instruments is just as you have noticed in you're own. That slow response is one of the more prevalent issues in a new, just strung up instrument. I find the character overall shows up quite quickly, but they do seem tight, sluggish.
That changes fairly quickly over time, much much more quickly if they are played early on and a lot.
Lately I've been less quick at trying to adjust a new instr. As it developes, it will reveal the needed adj. in sound posts and set ups. I've found that when I start trying to super tune a fresh one, I end up just chasing rabits, because of the settling in period.

Idealy, with the smaller ones, the right time to be thinking of large adjustments, is right about the time they need a fresh set of strings. So when I can, it's break in, play in, fresh strings, play in strings, then play with set up.

That's in a perfect world though, I usually do start fiddling sooner then that, I just put on the Elmer Fudd hat, and have fun huntin'

Don Harris · #3 12-12-2007, 12:55 PM

thanks Darren. How's your bass coming along?

Darren Molnar · #4 12-12-2007, 01:36 PM

Feels like it's dragging, a bit, actually.
Belly is glue to the ribs, scroll/peg box is made, neck roughed out.

So I'm at the point where I can't avoid the back any more.
My customer wants a carved back, and doesn't want a break at the upper bouts.He'd like it bent up there.
And I've been dreading hand carving this big chunk of maple.
Today I'm trying to flatten out the two pieces ( hand plane, hand saw), getting ready to glue the center join.
And looking for distractions, like the computer, dishes, shovelling the walk, etc.

Wishing I could convince him of the merits of a flat back.
I'm seriously thinking of renting out a grinder or chain saw or something.

Bill Bentgen · #5 12-12-2007, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren Molnar

I'm seriously thinking of renting out a grinder or chain saw or something.

I saw a magazine article years ago where a guy used a router to shape the back. he made templates to guide the router. Started on the inside center and raised the bit as he changed templates and move out to the edges, and then went to the outside where he started at the center and lowered the bit as he went to the edge. It probably saved the backbreaking work, but he probably spent a heck of a lot of time making the templates.

In 1999, when I was looking for a new bass, the difference between a flat back and a carved back from a noted American maker was $23k vs. $18k. I ended up buying a 5-string Pollmann.

Darren Molnar · #6 12-12-2007, 02:22 PM

Thanks for the ideas, Bill.
Yup, next time, I'll state up front that a round back is 5k more. That seems totally fair, now that I'm in the middle of making one.

Marcus Johnson · #7 12-12-2007, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren Molnar

I'm seriously thinking of renting out a grinder or chain saw or something.

What's that little mini-chainsaw thing that some people use? Dammit, can't remember the name. One of my students built his own bass and used that to rough it out. Scared the **** out of him, apparently.

PS... found it, it's called the Lancelot. Hopefully, when you finish the bass, you'll still have some fingers left to play it.

Darren Molnar · #8 12-12-2007, 02:42 PM

Hey, that's looking very attractive! I think I could get that at lee valley

Greg Clinkingbeard · #9 12-12-2007, 03:11 PM

A guy on Extreme Home Makeover was carving something with one of those and ran it across his palm, leaving a very ugly mess. If I were to try one, I'd get some very thick gloves.

Marcus Johnson · #10 12-12-2007, 03:26 PM

Plus, if you do it the old fashioned way, you'll have the life experience and sore muscles to show for it. Maybe you can write off the massage therapy as a business expense.

PS... just kidding... it's easy for me to offer stupid advice from the sidelines.

Every time I look at some of the figured back woods that Arnold Schnitzer and Jeff Bollbach have forced into the high art they create, I marvel at them.

Don Harris · #11 12-12-2007, 03:41 PM

Do you use a scrub plane for the initial roughing out? A friend of mine said it was a real time saver on a maple back over gouges. He got the Lie-Nielson and it makes quick work of removing a lot of wood. I did the same on my top.

Darren Molnar · #12 12-12-2007, 04:13 PM

Hey don
i'm using the scrub plane right now, to rough flatten out the back halves. I got about 3/8 inch left of an outward bow on one of the halves, and a bout a quarter inch left of a twist. It's actually going not bad this afternoon. I feel bad for kinda stealing you're thread, but my whining, and the replies after actually gave me a bit of a boost today. So sorry, and thanks, also.

Don Harris · #13 12-12-2007, 06:32 PM

No worries whatsoever. You already answered my question. Funny how certain aspects of building can become obstacles to overcome. Mostly mental, I think. Installing the tuning machines became a dreaded thing for me for some goofy reason. Maybe the thought of drilling into newly varnished wood bothered me.

Bob Branstetter · #14 12-12-2007, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Bentgen

I saw a magazine article years ago where a guy used a router to shape the back. he made templates to guide the router. Started on the inside center and raised the bit as he changed templates and move out to the edges, and then went to the outside where he started at the center and lowered the bit as he went to the edge. It probably saved the backbreaking work, but he probably spent a heck of a lot of time making the templates.

I know a few violin makers who use this method, but I don't know any bass maker's who use it. It's not really all that difficult to make the templates if you have a topographic map of the top or back. Then it is just a matter of tracing the elevation lines on a piece of plywood and then cutting them on your bandsaw. It's usually done with the templates underneath following a guide pin and an overarm router doing the cutting. You still have to carve the areas between the elevation lines by hand with gouges just like you would if use the usual arching templates. There's just a little less waste to remove.

Bob Branstetter · #15 12-12-2007, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

What's that little mini-chainsaw thing that some people use? Dammit, can't remember the name. One of my students built his own bass and used that to rough it out. Scared the **** out of him, apparently.

PS... found it, it's called the Lancelot. Hopefully, when you finish the bass, you'll still have some fingers left to play it.

I wouldn't want to use one to carve the arching, but for removing the waste wood on the bottom side it is hard to beat. Of course you have to drill a lot of graduation holes (with a drill press) before you start. It's real easy to take off too much wood (and go through the top

) if you aren't careful and have steady hands.