Bent/broken bridge, cracks, neck alignment (pics inside)

[gtrandbass]

Hey fellas,

I finally got my first upright bass today (mid 90s Engelhardt M1) and I have a few questions:

I aligned the bridge so that the E and G strings are equal distance from the fingerboard edges. Now the right side of the bridge is at the edge of the right f-hole and the left side is about 1/2" from the left f-hole. Any reasons to be concerned? See this picture http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/4928/1000385j.jpg

The same picture shows that some "ornamentation" is missing from the bridge. In addition the bridge is pretty heavily bent towards the neck. See these pics http://img709.imageshack.us/i/1000386i.jpg/ http://img515.imageshack.us/i/1000368a.jpg/
Is there a risk that the bridge breaks? Any other concerns? Would you get a replacement? If so how are those $30 adjustable bridges on Ebay?

I lowered the action on this bridge to about 5mm from the bottom of the string to the fingerboard, no buzzing. When temperature gets cooler does the tuning typically get sharp or flat? If sharp I'd assume the action may get little lower still.

The 3rd issue is that the top is separated from the side at one violin corner (perhaps 1/2"). See this: http://img258.imageshack.us/i/1000380.jpg/ I am assuming I could get a long clamp and just glue it back. Which glue would you recommend?

There also is some cracking at the neck/body joint...looks like it is in the surface only....anything to be concerned about? Pic here http://img32.imageshack.us/i/1000382e.jpg/

What should I do to cover/repair this dent? Some putty and coloring? Pic: http://img547.imageshack.us/i/1000377w.jpg/

Finally, which are or were the factory strings back in mid 90s on this bass? The guy I got the bass from said he has had it since new and that bass has original factory strings.

Thanks for your help and advice, in advance.

[OmnitzGarima]

Originally Posted by gtrandbass

Hey fellas,

I finally got my first upright bass today (mid 90s Engelhardt M1) and I have a few questions:

I aligned the bridge so that the E and G strings are equal distance from the fingerboard edges. Now the right side of the bridge is at the edge of the right f-hole and the left side is about 1/2" from the left f-hole. Any reasons to be concerned? See this picture http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/4928/1000385j.jpg

The same picture shows that some "ornamentation" is missing from the bridge. In addition the bridge is pretty heavily bent towards the neck. See these pics http://img709.imageshack.us/i/1000386i.jpg/ http://img515.imageshack.us/i/1000368a.jpg/
Is there a risk that the bridge breaks? Any other concerns? Would you get a replacement? If so how are those $30 adjustable bridges on Ebay?

I lowered the action on this bridge to about 5mm from the bottom of the string to the fingerboard, no buzzing. When temperature gets cooler does the tuning typically get sharp or flat? If sharp I'd assume the action may get little lower still.

The 3rd issue is that the top is separated from the side at one violin corner (perhaps 1/2"). See this: http://img258.imageshack.us/i/1000380.jpg/ I am assuming I could get a long clamp and just glue it back. Which glue would you recommend?

There also is some cracking at the neck/body joint...looks like it is in the surface only....anything to be concerned about? Pic here http://img32.imageshack.us/i/1000382e.jpg/

What should I do to cover/repair this dent? Some putty and coloring? Pic: http://img547.imageshack.us/i/1000377w.jpg/

Finally, which are or were the factory strings back in mid 90s on this bass? The guy I got the bass from said he has had it since new and that bass has original factory strings.

Thanks for your help and advice, in advance.

Take it to a luthier.

[gtrandbass]

For neck alignment? How do they do it? I believe I can take care of the rest if I get some advice here.

[Eric Hochberg]

You need a new bridge with adjusters. Have a luthier do it. I wouldn't worry about the cosmetic damage, and putty is a no-no, IMO. It's possible the neck is not on straight. You'll probably have to live with it as the cost to fix is high. The E foot of the bridge should be over the bass bar. Use hide glue to join seams. If you plan on working on the bass yourself, at the least, get Chuck Traeger's book.

[gtrandbass]

Thanks Eric for the info. I'll get that book and check that the E foot is on top of the bass bar. I have really limited funds available, I think I could take one of the readily available bridges work...that is the reason why I asked about the adjustable Ebay bridges...do these cheap ones work? http://cgi.ebay.com/Upright-Bass-bri...item563fcf04d3?

And other than the existing bridge does not have the "wings" to use certain type of pickups is there a risk that the bent bridge will break or what is the main reason I need a new one from the functional point of view?

I just cut the top of bridge this morning, new photos: http://img828.imageshack.us/i/1000388i.jpg/ http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6397/1000390j.jpg

...and here is body/neck joint area in focus: http://img689.imageshack.us/i/1000373t.jpg/

BTW exactly what glue I should use for the open violin corner?

thanks again!

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by gtrandbass

I think I could take one of the readily available bridges work...that is the reason why I asked about the adjustable Ebay bridges...do these cheap ones work? http://cgi.ebay.com/Upright-Bass-bri...item563fcf04d3?

And other than the existing bridge does not have the "wings" to use certain type of pickups is there a risk that the bent bridge will break or what is the main reason I need a new one from the functional point of view?

I wouldn't take a chance with an ebay bridge. Bridges come in many qualities, like anything else. You need a good quality bridge that is the correct size for your bass. Order a bridge from a bass shop that will sell you the correct blank for it (Fretwell is an Englehart dealer that comes to mind, Upton is another). However, if your neck is out of alignment, I think that could have a bearing on bridge size. Go see a bass luthier, for advise at least. And yes, your current bridge could break (it's pretty scary looking to me) and I would bet the bass will sound and play better with a healthy bridge.

Hot hide glue for most repairs.

If you post your location, that will help us advise you where to go for help.

[bigolbassguy]

Originally Posted by gtrandbass

Thanks Eric for the info. I'll get that book and check that the E foot is on top of the bass bar. I have really limited funds available, I think I could take one of the readily available bridges work...that is the reason why I asked about the adjustable Ebay bridges...do these cheap ones work? http://cgi.ebay.com/Upright-Bass-bri...item563fcf04d3?

And other than the existing bridge does not have the "wings" to use certain type of pickups is there a risk that the bent bridge will break or what is the main reason I need a new one from the functional point of view?

I just cut the top of bridge this morning, new photos: http://img828.imageshack.us/i/1000388i.jpg/ http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6397/1000390j.jpg

...and here is body/neck joint area in focus: http://img689.imageshack.us/i/1000373t.jpg/

BTW exactly what glue I should use for the open violin corner?

thanks again!

I've used a couple of these, and been pretty happy with them. For just a few bucks more, it would be a better choice imo.

http://www.gollihurmusic.com/product...LE_BRIDGE.html

Do you have the tools necessary for doing this stuff? It takes an experienced luthier 3-5 hours to fit a bridge.

+1 on ordering Chuck Traeger's book before you start anything.

[gtrandbass]

10-4, appreciated...I am in Atlanta and the bass is Engelhardt M1. I have seen some local luthiers in Gollihur's website. I'll check into the bridge options, I don't want this one to break so better safe than sorry, I'll get a new one.

The left foot is exactly on top of the bass bar, the edge of the bar is the same 1/2" from the f-hole. Maybe this slight asymmetricality is intentional?

I have worked years on guitars and I am familiar with fitting floating bridges on archtop guitars, that helps For fitting a new bass bridge I guess all I need is some sanding paper, tape and files really. Maybe a saw too. Anything else?

[bigolbassguy]

Originally Posted by gtrandbass

10-4, appreciated...I am in Atlanta and the bass is Engelhardt M1. I have seen some local luthiers in Gollihur's website. I'll check into the bridge options, I don't want this one to break so better safe than sorry, I'll get a new one.

The left foot is exactly on top of the bass bar, the edge of the bar is the same 1/2" from the f-hole. Maybe this slight asymmetricality is intentional?

I have worked years on guitars and I am familiar with fitting floating bridges on archtop guitars, that helps For fitting a new bass bridge I guess all I need is some sanding paper, tape and files really. Maybe a saw too. Anything else?

Take it to a luthier and get a price on an adjustable bridge/setup -normally between $300-500- because it is a lot of work to do it right. If you lack the patience to save the money for it, have them explain the process to you.

If you are determined to do it yourself...

When the E foot of the bridge is centered over the bass bar, each foot should be equidistant from the ff holes. The Gollihur bridges fit Engelhardts very well.

I use a compass, a flexible ruler, a steel yardstick, a square, a belt sander, calipers, shims, carving knife, needle files, chisels and card scrapers. Sanding the feet of the bridge to fit would be incredibly difficult as even the smallest deflection would prevent a perfect fit. The bridge has to be centered on the bass bar - be in alignment with the fingerboard, straddle the centerline between the nicks on the inside of the ff holes, and stand at slightly less than a 90 degree angle (toward the tailpiece) - in relation to the top.

Now... take a deep breath, step back and remind yourself not to rush into anything

[gtrandbass]

Good info, thanks! Yeah, no hurry here as the bass currently has a bridge that allows me to practice and I don't have $300-500 to spend in a new one I'll get the book that was mentioned and I'll do as much homework as I need to as I'm willing to try it myself...otherwise I'll never learn. The cheap Ebay bridge may make sense in this case if I don't get it right the first time hehe. I can borrow neighbor's belt sander and I already have most of the other tools you list.

I double-checked the bass bar location vs the current left bridge feet, the left edge of the bridge is at the left edge of the bar, I didn't check how wide the bar is. If is is narrower than the foot maybe the neck has gotten a hit and it is out of alignment...the left side neck/body join has a crack. The joint looks and feels stable though. Understandably too expensive to get the neck aligned, I am OK with that issue as long as it doesn't cause any tuning or other problems. The bridge is about 0.4" off-center to the right when strings are centered at the end of the fingerboard.

[bigolbassguy]

Your luthier will be able to point out whatever might be wrong with it, probably free of charge. You may have more to worry about than the bridge.

[gtrandbass]

The joint looks strong to me, I am not really concerned about it really. I'll ask luthier's opinion though.

I'll try steaming, clamping and baking the bridge, hopefully makes it straighter. I'll report the outcome.

[Cody Sisk]

Originally Posted by gtrandbass

Good info, thanks! Yeah, no hurry here as the bass currently has a bridge that allows me to practice and I don't have $300-500 to spend in a new one I'll get the book that was mentioned and I'll do as much homework as I need to as I'm willing to try it myself...otherwise I'll never learn. The cheap Ebay bridge may make sense in this case if I don't get it right the first time hehe. I can borrow neighbor's belt sander and I already have most of the other tools you list.

I double-checked the bass bar location vs the current left bridge feet, the left edge of the bridge is at the left edge of the bar, I didn't check how wide the bar is. If is is narrower than the foot maybe the neck has gotten a hit and it is out of alignment...the left side neck/body join has a crack. The joint looks and feels stable though. Understandably too expensive to get the neck aligned, I am OK with that issue as long as it doesn't cause any tuning or other problems. The bridge is about 0.4" off-center to the right when strings are centered at the end of the fingerboard.

Engelhardt necks are typically dovetail joints. If you had to get any work done to it, you're likely to need a heel graft and a refit of the mortise joint. FYI getting a neck angled and centered just right is still difficult for me and I'm a professional luthier.

[Cody Sisk]

Originally Posted by gtrandbass

The joint looks strong to me, I am not really concerned about it really. I'll ask luthier's opinion though.

I'll try steaming, clamping and baking the bridge, hopefully makes it straighter. I'll report the outcome.

This might buy you some time but:

1. The bridge is a stock engelhardt bridge which is a soft slab-cut piece of cheap maple.

2. The bridge will warp back quicker than the first time and might be less stable.

That bridge is firewood, you need a new one. The cheap one you found on Ebay isn't much better than the one you have now. It is soft and will warp quickly. The cheapest bridge blank I ever use is a Despiau D-grade. A blank shouldn't cost you more than that ebay bridge you were looking at and it's made of much better wood.

[gtrandbass]

I thought it would a big or hard job to work on the neck alignment, luckily the joints seem to hold just fine. I have not noticed any tuning stability problems during these two days I have had the bass.

[gtrandbass]

I just noticed your posting the bridge...I check into that option. So you are saying I should leave the existing bridge as s, it probably makes sense, maybe not boiling...as I need a new bridge I won't do any work on the bridge currently on the bass now. Good point, thanks.