better tone tranferring bridge wood

[hickorysmokebbq]

I know that there are some of you folks out there experimenting with the setup of your basses trying to find the right mojo to improve the sound. Has anyone thought about how efficient or inefficient the standard maple bridges are? Does anyone know what type of maple the standard bridges are made of? The purpose of the bridge is to transfer the vibration of the strings to the top. Right??? Is maple the optimum wood for that job??

I just got into upright bass about 4 months ago. I bought an AS bass and drove to CT to get it a month ago and have been trying to get the most out of her ever since. After I had a guy make a custom bridge using maple with bloodwood cap and feet, I started thinking about the wood used in the bridges. After much thought and researching wood I found out that my dad has some rough cut hickory in his barn that had been sawn about 7 years ago. So, I made a bridge out of hickory this weekend. I gained a little more volume and sustain from it. I found a reference stating that hickory's hardness is rated 1820 and hard maple is 1450. The higher the number the harder the wood.
I like the statement here: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n25000099/
"When people talk about hickory lumber and wood products, the adjectives fly. Hickory is not just tough, it is very tough. The wood isn't simply hard, it is extremely hard. As to being dense, strong and durable, well you get the picture. Albert Constantine Jr. writes in the book Know Your Woods, "Some woods are stronger than hickory and others are harder, but the combination of strength, toughness, hardness and stiffness possessed by hickory has not been found to the same degree in any commercial wood."

My spiro mittles came in the mail today and put them on as soon as I got home. I went to our local jam tonight. About 30 seconds into our first song the dobro player leaned over and asked me what have you done to that bass now?? Said it was really loud tonight…

The combination is sounding very good.
52 American Standard/Sprio Mittels/Hickory bridge w/High String action!!!!!
I think her new name is now Ole Hickory!!!!

PS: If the bridge does not work out.. As my nickname states, I'll just throw it in the fire and smoke some meat!!!

[JtheJazzMan]

Ive put one of those hard aubert mirecourt bridges on, which replaced a softer standard bridge.

There was definitely an increase in high frequencies, and a more direct focused sound.

[arnoldschnitzer]

Your hickory bridge may sound good to you, but being that you have used a slab-cut piece, it is likely that the bridge will warp. Perhaps you could look for a piece that is nicely quarter-sawn for another experiment.

Maple became the wood of choice for violin family instruments because it has a combination of qualities that help make a violin sound like a violin (and a cello, bass, etc), and also because it holds up reasonably well. Experimentation has been done for about 400 years, resulting in maple being the standard bridge wood. Hickory may be harder, but that is not necessarily the main quality one looks for in a string instrument bridge.

I applaud your questioning mind and desire to experiment, but please don't imagine that you are the first to ponder these issues. Volumes have been written on just about every aspect of string instrument construction, including the bridge.

[MrSidecar]

... one might think of the bridge itself.

I´m by no means a luthier, only very interested in the subject. So what I recall is a book by Hans Rödig (in German only, as I know of), called "Geigenbau in neuer Sicht" (something like "new perspectives on violin-building"). It´s from the 60. That has been an inspiration for at least my luthier. He builds bridges that have very thin legs, they are pretty lightweight, have thin feet, and they have their weight carefully centered. I´ve been using one of his bridges ever since I started playing. I experienced the difference that these bridges make, and they are quite stunning. Also, all the basses in his workshop sound very good. -In general, they fit better, apply themselves better to the basses´ curves, and dampen less. They give more volume, since they are designed to be as undampening as possible.

Downside to the thin feet is I don´t know how they deal with adjusters.

I might also add that many "traditional" luthiers (and some bassists too) get the cramps when they see these bridges, thinking them "wrong". This luthier, though, gives you this kind of warranty (at least he used to, I´m quite sure he still does): If, after he applied the bridge, you don´t like it, you get yours back and don´t have to pay. I know of nobody who ever wanted his old bridge back.

To make a long story short, that´s maybe a safer way to experiment, build them with maple, but try the mentioned things. I have never seen any of those bridges warp.

Best

Sidecar

[hickorysmokebbq]

I've seen several maple bridges warp over time. Seems to always go toward the fingerboard.

Only time will tell if the hickory will warp..

[Matthew Tucker]

- Volume isn't everything
- Maple carves like nothing else
- Custom anything costs more, unless you do it yourself

[vt picker]

i thinned my bride too much at the end (it was my first one) and it's maple...

interesting topic. you should look at banjo players, many of them have tried all kinds of wood (why not, no fitting, swap-able, and cheap!). Ebony had a really dark muted sound on my banjo for example. i don't think i've seen hickory

[forester]

vt picker, sounds as if you did your bride a discourtesy..much more,bordering on criminal behavior.

hsbbq, nice work... a thing to keep in mind is one of the outstanding qualities of hickory is it's willingness to bend,even in extreme thickness. AES's suggestion for 1/4 sawn is your best defense in keeping it plumb. as you say, time will tell.
p.s. quit knife-edging your caps !!

[carl h.]

Originally Posted by hickorysmokebbq

I've seen several maple bridges warp over time. Seems to always go toward the fingerboard.

Generally speaking this is a pull, not a warp. The strings stretch and the pitch - if not tuned - goes lower. Bringing up to pitch pulls the string towards the tuners, resulting in the bridge also being pulled towards the tuner. Usually it is operator error or lack of attention which bends a bridge.

Oh yeah, lay off the knife edge.

Back to your regularly scheduled experiment chat.

[hickorysmokebbq]

What are cap edges?? Knife edges??

I like the look of the edge.

Some of you guys need to live a little. Ever hear of individuality? This trait has got us where we are today. Without it "EVERYONE" would still be playing a bone flute and loving it.

Try something new and different for a change!!

[Nathan Parker]

I don't think "bone flute" means what you think it means.

But, whatever floats your boat is fine with me. I hope you like your bridge.

[forester]

[quote=hickorysmokebbq;7942818]What are cap edges?? Knife edges??

first and foremost..we don't acknowledge the boneflute,meatwhistle etc,etc,here, i suspect few of us are up for something that new and different (you'll have to go to the woodwind forum.)

cap- the peak of your bridge.

knife-edge- /\ double bevel as opposed to single bevel l\ you must single bevel from the face to the back, it is the law article-8 sec.3 of the annotated code in rereference to bridge cutting, but don't take my word for it, everyone will tell ya.

[arnoldschnitzer]

Originally Posted by hickorysmokebbq

What are cap edges?? Knife edges??

I like the look of the edge.

Some of you guys need to live a little. Ever hear of individuality? This trait has got us where we are today. Without it "EVERYONE" would still be playing a bone flute and loving it.

Try something new and different for a change!!

Nobody wants to stifle your individuality. It's just that the sharp top edge has a tendency to break strings.

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

Nobody wants to stifle your individuality.

I do.

[carl h.]

Originally Posted by hickorysmokebbq

What are cap edges?? Knife edges??

I like the look of the edge.

Some of you guys need to live a little. Ever hear of individuality? This trait has got us where we are today. Without it "EVERYONE" would still be playing a bone flute and loving it.

Try something new and different for a change!!

Try adding a mute for the same effect. Oh, but that can be quickly removed and wouldn't be new and innovative.

[William Hoffman]

Originally Posted by hickorysmokebbq

What are cap edges?? Knife edges??

Originally Posted by forester

...
cap- the peak of your bridge.

knife-edge- /\ double bevel as opposed to single bevel l\ you must single bevel from the face to the back, it is the law article-8 sec.3 of the annotated code in rereference to bridge cutting, but don't take my word for it, everyone will tell ya.

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

...It's just that the sharp top edge has a tendency to break strings.

aes, isn't a single bevel also more resistant to warping? i though that was why it's the standard bridge shape...

bbq good luck with the hickory bridge. please post in a few months. it occurred to me you might get an even better sound or more volume if the feet were not quite so thick.

i'm not a luthier, just very interested in the subject.

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by hickorysmokebbq

I just got into upright bass about 4 months ago. I bought an AS bass and drove to CT to get it a month ago and have been trying to get the most out of her ever since.

Actually I'd say, after reading all the above, your best avenue to "get the most out of her" is to work on your technique.

That's not meant as a facetious dismissal of your work with the bridge, but really, after only 4 months with a double bass, you likely won't be getting anywhere near its potential.

[forester]

aside from being in violation of article-8 sec.3...knife-edged caps are weak and the strings often saw deeply into the slot. this is particularly true with the E&A strings on violins,witnessed many buried enough to ruin the bridge. it's less acute on the bass but the principle is the same, with an adj. bridge, it's possible to freshen the cap and start over,not so with the violin/viola/cello.

[MollyKay]

Not to derail the thread but we too have been experimenting with good quality Despiau maple bridge blanks just for **** and giggles.

Our experiment is a little different…Lonnie is lightening the bridge for increased volume. We so far have three bridges cut in this manner. Each one has gotten progressively more hollow and we are pushing the limits to see how far we can go before it weakens the bridge too much to hold tension or explode. So far the A (solid bridge) vs. B (hollow bridge) testing we have increased the volume by 13% on my 1953 Kay by hollowing the bridge and tail piece simultaneously.

This is Lonnie’s brain fart and meant to be nothing more then an experiment and exploration for his satisfaction. So far it has satisfied his creativity and made two basses louder (we can’t qualify tone or quality of the bass…just more volume). I share this just to show creativity is alive and well but we also have great respect and understanding of the tradition and years of proven luthier methods. This just keeps the process interesting and innovative for us…no patents pending or sales pitch...this is our version of fun. We did it because we can.

[Mr.Phil]

Originally Posted by MollyKay

Not to derail the thread but we too have been experimenting with good quality Despiau maple bridge blanks just for **** and giggles.

Our experiment is a little different…Lonnie is lightening the bridge for increased volume. We so far have three bridges cut in this manner. Each one has gotten progressively more hollow and we are pushing the limits to see how far we can go before it weakens the bridge too much to hold tension or explode. So far the A (solid bridge) vs. B (hollow bridge) testing we have increased the volume by 13% on my 1953 Kay by hollowing the bridge and tail piece simultaneously.

This is Lonnie’s brain fart and meant to be nothing more then an experiment and exploration for his satisfaction. So far it has satisfied his creativity and made two basses louder (we can’t qualify tone or quality of the bass…just more volume). I share this just to show creativity is alive and well but we also have great respect and understanding of the tradition and years of proven luthier methods. This just keeps the process interesting and innovative for us…no patents pending or sales pitch...this is our version of fun. We did it because we can.

Not questioning, but do you arrive at the figure of 13% louder?