bow making?

jimmyduded · #1 11-19-2007, 03:58 PM

what tools will I need, where can i get them?

where can I get pernambuco? ebony?inlay etc?

Im getting a jig for holding bows already so cross that off the list

what are some good books on bow making?

Marcus Johnson · #2 11-19-2007, 04:27 PM

Man, I wish I had your energy. I used to, but I don't know where it went!

Silversorcerer · #3 11-19-2007, 04:49 PM

I don't know what else you need, but a really fine spoke shave is probably indispensable. +1 on the energy thing. Go Jimmy, go!

Bob Branstetter · #4 11-19-2007, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyduded

what tools will I need, where can i get them?

where can I get pernambuco? ebony?inlay etc?

Im getting a jig for holding bows already so cross that off the list

what are some good books on bow making?

Bow making is an art that requires a special talent and is best learned by working under a master bow maker (for at least 5 years or so). There are no books that I know of in print that are any good. There were a couple of very good bow making books, but they are now long out of print. They sell for very big bucks on the very rare occasions when one actually becomes available on the open market.

I tried making a few bows many years ago and quickly discovered why there are so few good bow makers. IMO, Making a good bow is much more difficult than making a good violin or bass. There is probably one good bow maker for every hundred good violin (family) makers.

Darren Molnar · #5 11-19-2007, 05:15 PM

Jimmy, you're graduating high school in a year or two, huh?

Have you looked into the violin making shools? there are two highly regarded ones in the U.S. ,maybe more.

Martin Sheridan · #6 11-19-2007, 05:21 PM

Check out the University of New Hampshire and bow making.
Every summer for a couple of decades or so Lynn Hannings and George Rubino have taught bow making and repair and rehairing. I've seen some of George's bows and they are quite good. The course is expensive but might be worth it to you.

The bow jigs I've seen that are for sale need some adaptation in my opinion. It's hard to believe that they were designed by someone who has actually rehaired bows. You'll want to add something to keep the bow from coming out of the front holding jig , the part that holds the tip while you are combing, and probably a couple of pieces glued or screwed to the underside. One at the head to allow you to drop it over the work bench edge so that you can comb the hair and put tension on it without having the jig move around and up and down, and one under the frog just so that it remains level the rest of the time. Some replace the front holding jig with one similar to the one that holds the frog, so that it can be screwed in to clamp the bow in place. Or you can make your own.

jimmyduded · #7 11-19-2007, 05:28 PM

3 to be exact, no I havent thought about it, currently building and things etc is a hobby and Iam not sure if I have the skill to succeed In making it my career, I would consider myself more of a trial and error(mr.riccardi know this) type of learner, My dads first job was a machinist before he was a police cheif so all I currently know I learned from him but I think Im the type of person you can tell the "right" way to do something 2000 times but Im still going to try to make it more efficient no matter how old the technique, I think if I took up a career In engineering or something like that to pioneer new technology for luthiery etc then it would be more beneficial to luthiery of the future, thanks for the encouragment guys!

jimmyduded · #8 11-19-2007, 05:32 PM

my bow jig is coming from the late mr.riccardi, Its structure is second to none(I admire all his work) , I think I would do the summer thing, it sounds like fun and I think I would gain alot out of it, Im going to get mr.riccardi to check his books for some bow ones(he has literally 100 books on bows basses and bass making etc)

David Kaczorowski · #9 11-19-2007, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyduded

3 to be exact, no I havent thought about it, currently building and things etc is a hobby and Iam not sure if I have the skill to succeed In making it my career, I would consider myself more of a trial and error(mr.riccardi know this) type of learner, My dads first job was a machinist before he was a police cheif so all I currently know I learned from him but I think Im the type of person you can tell the "right" way to do something 2000 times but Im still going to try to make it more efficient no matter how old the technique, I think if I took up a career In engineering or something like that to pioneer new technology for luthiery etc then it would be more beneficial to luthiery of the future, thanks for the encouragment guys!

Two quick points Grasshopper:

1. Art and efficiency don't often, if ever, mix.

2. Regardless of what type of person you think you are, a sign of maturity is the willingness and ability to listen to those older and wiser than you. There's no need for making 2000 mistakes. I've had bass students who were more interested in tellng me how they'd do it than the lessons I was teaching. They thought they knew so much, but still wanted lessons. I still can't figure it out.

jimmyduded · #10 11-19-2007, 06:17 PM

I hate that(response to #2), I wasnt referring to not listening but I need to screw it up somehow so I remember to do it right the next time, Its just a technique that I learn through, Im not saying I purposly fail, I just choose to do it the way I think is right then be corrected if it isnt right

shostkontrabass · #11 11-19-2007, 06:27 PM

Pernambucco is an endangered tree. Correct me if I'm wrong, but currently you can still get it if you actually go to Brazil where it grows, get a permit, and go out with a guide to cut it yourself. Most bow makers, due to the aging required for the pernambucco to be suitable for making bows, have already purchased a lifetime's supply of it and keep it in storage to age. Therefore, they will never need to buy the wood again, making the endangerment no problem for them. I heard recently that it is being pushed to make it completely prohibited to cut pernambucco under any circumstances. This prohibition would be lifted after enough time had passed for a good supply to grow back (something like 80 years). So it might be that for almost a decade, the only place to get pernambucco is from bow makers who already have their own supply.

shostkontrabass · #12 11-19-2007, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyduded

I would consider myself more of a trial and error(mr.riccardi know this) type of learner

You might consider using cheaper, less rare wood than pernambucco (see last post) to start off with. I'm not entirely sure what woods are used aside from Pernambucco and Brazil Wood, both of which are quite pricey. Maybe someone else knows?

Good luck!

jimmyduded · #13 11-19-2007, 06:50 PM

thats sad about the pernambuco, Bow prices are going to go way up I assume, if anyone knows about other types of wood please let me know

Marcus Johnson · #14 11-19-2007, 07:05 PM

I believe snakewood is a fairly common bow wood.

Jason Sypher · #15 11-19-2007, 07:06 PM

Reid Hudson is a great bowmaker who teaches a summer course in Arkansas. Here is his website: http://members.shaw.ca/reidhudson/bows/

Reading over this thread I can understand where all the posts are coming from both those that seem supportive and those that don't. Keep your enthusiasm and energy, that's important. Combine that with great humility and perspective and you have a chance of reaching any goal you set your mind to. You're young and time stretches out before you but as you roll through the years you realize that to be great or even "really good" at something takes enormous commitment, effort and time. I'm sure no one here is trying to be discouraging but only trying to help you channel all that energy in the most effective way to get where you want to go. Good luck in all endeavors.

jimmyduded · #16 11-19-2007, 07:20 PM

thanks jason, and where the heck do I get snakewood?

Martin Sheridan · #17 11-19-2007, 07:41 PM

I'm not sure about Pernambuco being an endangered species.

I used to know a woman who was a sales person for Horst John out of Brazil. She told me he came to Brazil after WWII and started making bows there and training local craftmen in the art. One of the astonishing things she told me was that he planted hundreds if not thousands of pernambuco trees knowing that he would never live to see them grow to maturity. He died some ten or more years ago and the business passed to his wife who later sold it to this woman. She was a really nice person and I hope the story is true. Before his time and perhaps right up to ours the only way to find pernambuco apparently was to walk around the forest until you found one as they were few and far between and even then a particular tree might not be good enough.

So today pernambuco may be scarce but hopfully due to Horst John's love of the bow there will be plenty of that wood around for the future.

I'd be interested in hearing from others about this.

jimmyduded · #18 11-19-2007, 07:47 PM

thats a very interesting story

forester · #19 11-19-2007, 07:57 PM

get your schoolwork done

..then when time permits get a hand full of holtz and glasser bows..tear them up..they have nothing to do with wood. find out what makes them work... about the 2000 mistakes.."once burnt twice learnt"

Silversorcerer · #20 11-19-2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyduded

thats sad about the pernambuco, Bow prices are going to go way up I assume, if anyone knows about other types of wood please let me know

I just had Martin Brunkalla make me a German style bow from American Osage Orange wood. Apparently it is a rare case that this wood is suitable, but sometimes. My bow works very well. Osage Orange is neither rare or expensive. Archery bow blanks is how it is usually supplied.