Bridge work for my DB

[stewdiodog]

Hi all,
This is my first post on TB, so be nice to me. I have been playing EB for many years and picked up DB about 4 years ago to do some Bluegrass and Jazz gigs. I bought an Englehardt that fit my budget and basic needs - ply top/ebony fingerboard.
weather changes caused my action to take a bit of a dive and i really needed a new bridge because my was ill-fitted and the action was too low. I bought an adjustable from Gollihur and assumed that local luthiers could easily cut down and fit it to my DB for a nominal fee. Anyway, long story short, the local guy quoted me $300 and I blanched. I know it's a lot of work to fit an UB bridge, but assumed that 2-3 hrs of work would run me maybe $150. Am I just ignorant here? Is that about what you all would expect to pay?
I'm not comfortable doing it myself as I lack experience, tools and patience...I would sure appreciate some input from the more experiences DBers on how much I should expect to pay for this service. Thanks!
-Tim
Modesto, Ca.

[jdepriest]

Seems a little high for just a new bridge. Did he see the bass when he made the quote?

[Eric Hochberg]

That's not out of line. Shop around, though. I think it is more difficult to fit a bridge already cut for adjusters, too. Luthiers?

[Jake deVilliers]

We recently discussed this very topic. I don't think that price is out of line.

I personally wouldn't try to fit a bridge with adjusters already installed. For one thing its more difficult with the feet and legs already separated and for another, I can't guarantee the work.

[Eric Swanson]

I've paid a bit more than the price the OP mentioned. What is the quality of the work like?

[longfinger]

Get different quotes. Some luthiers charge more than others. For your needs, it's likely not necessary to go to the same guy the local symphony players go to. Find out where the local schools take their basses to and get a quote from there. Shop around.

[james condino]

Tim:

A lot depends upon your local market and the individual you go to. $150 - 300 is a reasonable range here, but I also know a pretty uptight shop in a large metropolitain area about three hours drive from me that charges approx. $600 for the same work and gives you a bunch of attitude along with it.

'Funny thing is that in the same day, some of my bluegrass customers will come in and try to get it done for under $100 and the guys from the local symphony will say that there is no way I can do "quality professional work" for $450, so they take it to the guy in the big city and spend $600 or more plus a tank of gas.....

Above anything else, take it to a bass specialist. Not a fiddle guy, not a guitar shop, not somebody who plays the banjo but has a bass player in his band....you wouldn't take your car to a skateboard shop just because they both have four wheels....Ideally take it to an upright bass specialist who also understands and plays a similar style of music to you.

j.

[MingusAmongUs]

Not unreasonable, but ironically you'd probably get the same quote if you needed the bridge supplied too, for reasons mentioned above. Sometimes fixing someone else's work is harder than starting from scratch, and that applies to just about anything.

[Cody Sisk]

Originally Posted by MingusAmongUs

Not unreasonable, but ironically you'd probably get the same quote if you needed the bridge supplied too, for reasons mentioned above. Sometimes fixing someone else's work is harder than starting from scratch, and that applies to just about anything.

Agreed! I don't like it when a customer brings me a bridge to fit rather than buying the blank and the work both from me. I have certain bridge blanks (I'm very picky and choosy with them!) that I use and will guarantee. I'm sure Bob's blanks are nice and will work just fine, but I have seen some soft chinese no-name bridge blanks from other sources that I know will warp a couple weeks after the install. Then I'm blamed for bad workmanship! On that same note, I agree with Jake. It's a lot more work to fit a bridge with adjusters already in it.

I like doing my own wheels. I don't think the wheels are ever installed correctly when they're mass-produced. I know that when I do a set of wheels, the shaft is dead-on parallel with the back of the bridge and the holes are properly tapped and lubricated so that they can be adjusted while the strings are tensioned.

[Cody Sisk]

Originally Posted by james condino

the guys from the local symphony will say that there is no way I can do "quality professional work" for $450, so they take it to the guy in the big city and spend $600 or more plus a tank of gas.....

This phenomena just eludes me and irritates me to no end. Musicians are not properly compensated as it is. It's just wasteful for them to be this irrational.

[james condino]

The only thing more irrational than an improperly compensated musician is the idea of some luthier actually trying to make a living off what is leftover in a musician's wallet at the end of the day!!!!

j.

[forester]

1 hr +/- on a englehardt...one Ben Franklin,and get me some coffee.
welcome to TB

[james condino]

There are a lot of ways you can approach fitting a bridge. I'm not trying to be critical of anyone else's work or approach, but I generally spend more like 3-3.5 hours on a bridge to get a very good fit, even one of Bob's. On a Kay or Englehardt, with the ultra low neck angle, it can take more time than one set correct. 90% of them come in with incorrect spacing and heights on the existing bridge, so it doesn't even make a very good template to start with.

Drop all of the tension from the bass ( and hope that the soundpost doesn't fall over), bandsaw off the extra from the feet, then hand fit the feet to the top, lay everything in the correct position, use a shooting board to reference from the top of the fingerboard, rough off the excess top of the bridge, string everything up and individually hand cut each slot fairly close, back the tension off and remove the bridge, saw or plane off the excess from the top, taper the profile from bottom to top, make any needed adjustments to the pre-installed adjusters ( on a Cheap Chinese made bridge installed on a Kay it is usually a LOT of adjustment), string it back up to tension and make any subtle corrections, drop the tension again, take the whole assembly apart, make any aesthetic cuts / profiles in the blank- corners, wings, et cetera, profile the wings for whatever pickup system the client wants to use, use the spindle sander to make any adjustments to the overall profile so that is is visually symmetrical again, do any final finish hand sanding as needed, polish all wooden parts with steel wool, then at least two coats of shellac to all parts of the bridge, let dry, reassemble, string back up to full tension, make any subtle adjustments, install pickup system. If it is a really beat up looking old bass, then add a bit more time for rubbing dirt and such all over it to add a bit of character so the bass / bridge combo doesn't look like some dork with a brand new pair of white socks and white tennis shoes. After all that, I pretty much insist that the owner come back in 45 days for a checkup and refit the brige and anything else after it has all settled in for a while.

If the owner happens to be present during the process, add at least another hour, but the side benefit is that I have them do all of the string cranking at the scroll end...

Let's not forget that pretty much by the time the bridge on a bass is toast, there are a few other subtle adjustments that get some attention- nut, saddle, soundposts, tuner rattles or the like.

Did I mention the possibility of breaking one of those crusty old strings you brought it in here with due to the multiple tension adjustments?

All that adds up to a lot of specialized time on the bench. Englehardt or an old pedigree bass, they all get the same treatment. I can tell you pretty clearly that you won't get that treatment when you double your money and drive to the city three hours away....

j.

[Cody Sisk]

Originally Posted by james condino

There are a lot of ways you can approach fitting a bridge. I'm not trying to be critical of anyone else's work or approach, but I generally spend more like 3-3.5 hours on a bridge to get a very good fit, even one of Bob's. On a Kay or Englehardt, with the ultra low neck angle, it can take more time than one set correct. 90% of them come in with incorrect spacing and heights on the existing bridge, so it doesn't even make a very good template to start with.

Drop all of the tension from the bass ( and hope that the soundpost doesn't fall over), bandsaw off the extra from the feet, then hand fit the feet to the top, lay everything in the correct position, use a shooting board to reference from the top of the fingerboard, rough off the excess top of the bridge, string everything up and individually hand cut each slot fairly close, back the tension off and remove the bridge, saw or plane off the excess from the top, taper the profile from bottom to top, make any needed adjustments to the pre-installed adjusters ( on a Cheap Chinese made bridge installed on a Kay it is usually a LOT of adjustment), string it back up to tension and make any subtle corrections, drop the tension again, take the whole assembly apart, make any aesthetic cuts / profiles in the blank- corners, wings, et cetera, profile the wings for whatever pickup system the client wants to use, use the spindle sander to make any adjustments to the overall profile so that is is visually symmetrical again, do any final finish hand sanding as needed, polish all wooden parts with steel wool, then at least two coats of shellac to all parts of the bridge, let dry, reassemble, string back up to full tension, make any subtle adjustments, install pickup system. If it is a really beat up looking old bass, then add a bit more time for rubbing dirt and such all over it to add a bit of character so the bass / bridge combo doesn't look like some dork with a brand new pair of white socks and white tennis shoes. After all that, I pretty much insist that the owner come back in 45 days for a checkup and refit the brige and anything else after it has all settled in for a while.

If the owner happens to be present during the process, add at least another hour, but the side benefit is that I have them do all of the string cranking at the scroll end...

Let's not forget that pretty much by the time the bridge on a bass is toast, there are a few other subtle adjustments that get some attention- nut, saddle, soundposts, tuner rattles or the like.

Did I mention the possibility of breaking one of those crusty old strings you brought it in here with due to the multiple tension adjustments?

All that adds up to a lot of specialized time on the bench. Englehardt or an old pedigree bass, they all get the same treatment. I can tell you pretty clearly that you won't get that treatment when you double your money and drive to the city three hours away....

j.

This all sounds entirely too familiar.. Perhaps if I didn't have my shop blatantly in the front of our store with windows, I could save on work time when I don't have to concentrate on the bridge fitting while sharing conversation.. but what's the fun in that?

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I worked in retail menswear a few decades ago. A well dressed man walked in looking for a nice leather jacket.

Shop owner: "I just got some in today but haven't gotten them on the floor yet."

Customer: "What price range?"

Shop owner: "$200-300"

Customer: "I'm looking for something much nicer."

Shop owner: "Come to think of it, I may have something," as he runs to the back room and prices one at just under $1000.

Customer: "That's exactly what I want."


You don't always get what you pay for, but some people just have to have 'the best', whatever that means.

[forester]

JC yep..and go get another one before break.

i am a corporate cog,paid to produce, stripped of the affinity i once shared with the instruments i repair, methodology and disipline rule. sounds drab,lifeless and robotic, but nothing could be further from the truth. the chore has turned to challenge as i am finding ways to avoid wasted moves,wasted words,and polishing turds.
by the numbers.

[bigolbassguy]

Originally Posted by stewdiodog

Hi all,
This is my first post on TB, so be nice to me. I have been playing EB for many years and picked up DB about 4 years ago to do some Bluegrass and Jazz gigs. I bought an Englehardt that fit my budget and basic needs - ply top/ebony fingerboard.
weather changes caused my action to take a bit of a dive and i really needed a new bridge because my was ill-fitted and the action was too low. I bought an adjustable from Gollihur and assumed that local luthiers could easily cut down and fit it to my DB for a nominal fee. Anyway, long story short, the local guy quoted me $300 and I blanched. I know it's a lot of work to fit an UB bridge, but assumed that 2-3 hrs of work would run me maybe $150. Am I just ignorant here? Is that about what you all would expect to pay?
I'm not comfortable doing it myself as I lack experience, tools and patience...I would sure appreciate some input from the more experiences DBers on how much I should expect to pay for this service. Thanks!
-Tim
Modesto, Ca.

That's actually on the low end of the going rate. It's not just a lot of work. It takes a lot of skill and patience that not many people possess. I'm not a luthier (yet) but I've done several bridges, and none of them have been what I'd call perfect. Even so - the job takes me 4-5 hours just to make acceptable by my standards. Many more hours of practice before I get it right consistently. There's a little bit of magic involved.

You would expect to pay a plumber $300 for four hours of work, right? And that requires less talent IMHO.

[james condino]

Originally Posted by forester

JC yep..and go get another one before break.

I once worked at a guitar factory run by a corporate dork whose only experience was running a Pepsi plant.....

Lickily it didn't last very long. I showed up for work one day and was called into the office. The week before they offered me the position as head of a new division within the company, but I was asked to keep it quiet. I walk into the office that day: Here is your last paycheck, I want your keys, you've got five minutes to vacate the building, end of conversation. He called me a slacker and said that I would never make it because i was only building 1 1/2 instruments every morning before the lunch hour. The last guy he fired could make two and there was a fellow last year (tweaker...) that was making three before lunch. The corporate dork telling me this story failed to realize that he was cranked out of his mind at work and had figured out a great way to speed up the build process- by eliminating all of the bracing!

Anyone who has visions of some old Italian guy in a $75 white linen shirt and John Lennon glasses "handmaking" your factory instrument should actually go visit a production factory sometime...

The end of that job was a relief, but I've missed the commute every since- 11 miles of riding my bike through old country roads each way watching the alpenglow on the glaciers from sunrise and set 9 on different volcanoes across the horizon...

j.

[Jake deVilliers]

Hey James, nice to see that I'm not the only one who takes forever to fit a bridge!

You left out the part about the bass tops with wild humps and dips around the sound post that drive you crazy trying to fit the damn treble foot!

I go through most of those steps and make the bridge fit perfectly before installing the adjusters. That gives me a result I can be proud of and a musical bridge that will serve my client well for a long time.

[Eric Hochberg]

Cody, Jake and James, Thanks for sharing all of this great info! Bill Merchant did a bridge with adjusters for me 30 years ago and it's still going strong. Never a problem. Quality speaks for itself.