Bridgeport milling machine

[james condino]

I posted a similar topic with my homies over at the mandolin cafe, but I wanted a larger perspective from folks on this side of the spectrum. I've got a chance to acquire a nice old Bridgeport milling machine as an addition to the shop and wondered if any of you keep one around and what uses you regularly have for it. I can see a world of potential, but the tradeoff is that it also takes up a good bit of footspace in an already busy small shop.

j.

[robobass]

Space is a consideration, as well as wiring it up if you don't have 3-phase in the shop. But, there are so many ways in which it can be helpful that I think after a few years you'll wonder how you ever did without it. Also, you can tie yourself to it if there's a hurricane!

[james condino]

It is a factory original single phase model from the late '50s!

j.

[Matthew Tucker]

I can see you inventing a new line of ergo machine heads ... brass bridges ... titanium tailpieces ... the possibilities are endless ... :-)

[Eric Swanson]

I saw one at Jed Kreigel's shop, here in the Boston area. You could PM him, here, or call him, to see how/if he uses it.

If you have the space, and the Bridgeport is in usable condition, and the rigging fees/electrical hookup fees won't be too heinous, it would be a groovy thing to have...

On a practical level, since a shop is a business, I would ask if you think it will pay for itself. I have "passed" on a few heavy equipment "steals" or "gifts." Such as vintage moulders, knife grinders, etc. I always felt a sense of loss (there is nothing like having cool toys and being able to do cool stuff on them), but I was always able to have the occasional odd job done by somebody else with that particular piece of heavy equipment.

From a business perspective, I try to ask myself; does this serve my firm's primary (or secondary) purpose? Is this the best use of my time and money, right now? Is this merely a distraction from doing stuff that might be harder, more boring, less desirable, but, perhaps, more important for my firm?

How does one balance fun against practical thinking? Certainly a personal call.

In business classes I have learned about something called Pareto Analysis; many of you probably know more about it than I ever will. The basic idea is that fixing the right 20% of a firm's "things to do" will actually solve 80% of the company's problems. So, it is up to you to figure out if not having a Bridgeport is going to be part of that magical 20% that makes life significantly better.

Here's a link, for kicks:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_analysis

[Uncletoad]

There is a race car mechanic across the street from my shop that has 3 bridgeport machines. I'm really happy he's there and he's got one. He's made me look pretty handy more than once.

I personally wouldn't want to mess with the learning curve in learning to use it and where I live and work the space to put it just isn't there, but if you have the space to house it and the time to acquire skills on it the advantage in building and repair is pretty large.

It's a really really cool tool. Might speed up some of your production too, especially things you normally do with saws and chisels.

....and it's from the 50's, how cool is that!

[Uncletoad]

Gotta see some pics man.

[arnoldschnitzer]

I have a small model-maker's milling machine. It is indispensable for certain operations, and a handy thing to have around. If I ever acquired a Bridgeport or similar monster, I would want to have both power feed and digital readout (if I had the patience I'd also want CNC). This might knock out an early machine. Lou DiLeone in Orange, CT has one and has been using it for many decades to make and modify all sorts of parts. Lou has a heavy background in metals machining (going back to WWII). Running a large mill requires a lot of knowledge most woodworker's don't possess. But they are amazing machines.

[Mark Carlsen]

My partner Carl Mesrobian who is an Archtop luthier by trade uses his to do scroll grafts for me. Saves a lot of time. This is the same for Jed. I was at his shop the other day and he showed me several scrolls he has done. The learning curve may be hard in the beginning, but after you get the hang of it you will wonder why you would ever do one by hand again.

[vejesse]

Up here in the rust belt, there are tons of machines available cheap. For a friend, I found a 70's Index brand (Nice) Brideport copy with infinitely variable speed, DRO, power feed and a collet set for $1000. Big lathes can go for scrap prices. I believe the machine you describe is the first generation Bridgeport. It's not a large machine but there's room for a 6" vise. Check the backlash in the lead screws - those old machines tend to be pretty loose. With that one you might want to stick with HSS end mills and conventional type cut direction.

I have a small Clausing mill here in my shop. I wouldn't say the thing gets tons of use here in a musical instrument repair business, but when you need it you're glad you have it. But contrary to what was mentioned above, I don't think having the mill would speed up any work you do with wood. Band saw, table saw - much more efficient. I have used mine to re cut neck mortises on guitars, or cut slots for splines in guitar headstock reinforcement. But metal cutting machines take more setup, it's slow going and you tend to fuss around a lot. You want it for cutting metal, right?

A lathe is a different story. I have a small Clausing 12 x 24 machine and I use it all the time cutting metal and wood.

If it's in good shape I say go for it. If you have a lot of sawdust flying around just remember to keep the ground surfaces wiped down and oiled so the moisture in the sawdust doesn't rust things up.

[robobass]

Originally Posted by vejesse

... Check the backlash in the lead screws - those old machines tend to be pretty loose. ...

True. Although I think how they were used is a bigger factor than how old they are, wear should be assessed. There are some simple tests you can perform for this.

[DavidMP]

Frank Ford from Gryphon Strings plays around with one so you can probably ask him his opinion too.

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/hstpages.html

[vejesse]

One thing about that mill: Does the spindle use MT 2 collets or R8? I believe that first generation mill might have the MT 2. You might want to hold out for a machine with an R8 spindle as there's much more tooling out there. R8 collets go up to 1 1/8" I believe, but MT 2 only to 1/2".

That machine you're considering might be the perfect size for your shop however. Smaller table, lighter weight, smaller footprint, single phase power.

[robobass]

Originally Posted by vejesse

One thing about that mill: Does the spindle use MT 2 collets or R8? I believe that first generation mill might have the MT 2. You might want to hold out for a machine with an R8 spindle as there's much more tooling out there. R8 collets go up to 1 1/8" I believe, but MT 2 only to 1/2".

That machine you're considering might be the perfect size for your shop however. Smaller table, lighter weight, smaller footprint, single phase power.

I think 1/2" should be adequate for a mandolin builder. It is cool to be able to chuck up a huge fly cutter with a 1" shank and surface a 6" width of tool steel on one pass, but I doubt Mr. Condino would have a huge need for this application

[vejesse]

I'm sure he'd probably be happy with the machine in question but a 1/2" collet is pretty small. I have a machine with a MT 2 spindle and it definitely limits the work you can do - you're in the territory of a "hobby" machine. You could say that the spindle size should be designed around the size of the machine, that's why this smaller mill without a lot of weight or rigidity has the small spindle. You shouldn't be running huge tools on it because it's not designed for them.

If I had to do it again I'd get a slightly larger machine with an R8 spindle, mostly because R8 tooling is much more varied, plentiful and cheap. At the other end of the spectrum would be a "mill drill" with an R8 spindle. I've heard of people running 3" face mills on a machine that small but I would think the thing would walk right off the table with any depth of cut.

A good compromise would be something like the Burke/Powermatic milling machine, which is basically the size of the Bridgeport in question but with a spindle big enough for an R8 taper. The thing is, you'll end up using this machine for projects other than musical instrument work. With the availability of these machines at close to scrap prices you might as well end up with something with enough capacity to handle all your needs. Then again you can always trade up later on if you get into bigger stuff.

[oldfretless]

I have a Bridgeport and 2 lathes, VERY useful to me, and with a mill & a lathe, you can make anything, or just use it as a drill press. 15 years ago, mine was 13.5, with the power feed and DRO (still USA made then) brand new. I have 3 phase, but a static convertor (about $200) will work. You can find them at auctions cheap, especially with a smaller table (which may be OK for you). R8 is best, and it's the tooling, not the machine, that's expensive.

[james condino]

...."Mr. Condino".....? Pretty cool of you guys to think about my dad in this discussion....

A little update from my end. It looks like the machine is an older ram head M type with the 5" round top ('think my nomencalture is correct...), not the second generation heavy dovetail style. It is single phase, 1/2 hp, with probably two grand worth of accessories- about 60 different sized hold downs, a small vise, a large adjustable vise, and a large angle vise, 8 collets, three drill press style jacobs chucks, and about 100 good condition mills of all sizes. No power feeds or digital readout. I do think it only goes up to 1/2", but I'm not making giant parts for the space shuttle. It is also just a few miles from my house and I've got a very experienced friend who is a professional equipment rigger with all the right equipment and uber-fancy trailer / truck to move it for me for a few cases of malt beverage....

From where I'm standing, it seems like good machine for the work I do and solid / in good condition, not all worn out and wartorn.

Funny how these threads seem to take a mind of their own and travel all over the place. I primarily focus on building and restoring three instruments- the mandolin, all forms of the guitar, and the double bass. My intentions for the mill would be for work on the instruments and their fittings as well as jigs / infrastructure for the shop. I've got a nice collection of 30s / 40s old woodworking machinery that always seems to be missing or have a broken obscure part that I would like to be able to fabricate on site. I envision 75% use on wood, 20% aluminum, 5% other.

Aside from the potential capabilities of integrating this into my work, three times this year I've tried to contract outside "machinists" who appeared to be reputable and charged $50-90 per hour. Once I was told by several people that they were not willing to take on the small job, and twice the workmanship was just plain unacceptable- out of tolerance by almost 0.030" and the guy got very belligerant and tried to start a fight with me when I called him on it. Hence, time for old james to step up and get his own Bridgeport. None of the jobs I asked for were very complex or out of line; almost student level projects. I've spent a lifetime being around these machines - multiple family members that were machinists and a grandfather who was a patternmaker, along with my background in mechanical engineering. I've just never actually had one in my own shop, which is smaller in size and just a luthier's woodworking shop. The thing does take up a lot of space and it is a comittment for sure- no just tossing it in the back of the old run down Subaru and taking it to a pawn shop if I have some long term committment issues (with the Bridgeport, not the rest of life....) in a year.

Thanks for all of the perspective. I'll try to post a photo or two of said machine.

j.

[james condino]

[UncleFluffy]

Bridgeports are great machines, but they're BIG. I have access to one at a shared workshop space, but 95% of the time my little Harbor Freight mill at home is enough to get the job done. I added a homebrew CNC system to it so it can churn stuff out while I'm doing something else, and it would have cost a lot more to do that on a bigger mill.

I don't know how much the BP would cost, how much space it would take up, or exactly what you'd be using it for but would something smaller be a better fit to your needs?

edit: if you do get a mill, shoot me a PM. Due to a recent eBay score I have a small mountain of 11/32 and 7/32 end mills and I'd be happy to send a few over for cost of shipping.

[Uncletoad]

Thats cool!

Can you make them bigger?