BROKEN NECK QUOTE

[Cyrus Pansch]

Hey there,

I have a friend w/ a double bass who's neck just broke clean at the neck joint.

It's a standard strait joint - not a dovetail, and both the neck & neckblock are intact (except for the separation). Of course it's difficult to tell without pictures, but I was hoping maybe Arnold or another top luthier could give me an guesstimate of how much it might cost to fix?

I would go directly to a luthier & ask, however I live about 4 hours away from any decent bass luthier... (Northern MN)

Thanks to all for any help you can provide...

[Cyrus Pansch]

Pretty please - can someone just give me a ballpark quote..

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Cyrus Pansch

Pretty please - can someone just give me a ballpark quote..

Two hot dogs and a soda: $15.50

Ok, ok, I think it would help enormously if you would post pictures.

[dchan]

If it's just a clean break, I'd surmise that the repair would consist of cleaning out the old hide glue, realigning the neck, and gluing it back on. I'm no luthier, but it doesn't sound like it will cost that much.

[Cyrus Pansch]

Your all worthless

[Jake deVilliers]

Originally Posted by Cyrus Pansch

Your all worthless

Nice! You don't get what you want so WE'RE all worthless?

Seeya!

[dchan]

Originally Posted by Cyrus Pansch

Thanks to all for any help you can provide...

Originally Posted by Cyrus Pansch

Your all worthless

[james condino]

Cyrus:

Sometimes the cynical responses and sarcasm around here get to me, so I'll try to offer an answer for you. First, please fill in the rest of your profile, so we can get an idea of where your location is. That has a lot to do with pricing- areas with high costs of living and large metropolitain areas tend to be more expensive than places where you can own a beautiful farm in the country for $75k. Low over head regularly (not always) translates to better deals for the customer.

So, you've got an as of yet undisclosed double bass with no dovetail and a clean separated neck from the block with no issues. The ideal situation would be that the repair person has to clean the old glue off the block and neck, dryfit everything so that it fits and aligns properly, and then hit it with a bit of hide glue. After that it should all string up fine. I've seen the rare case where this took two hours work (VERY rare).

I'm sure you could find a local electric guitar shop with absolutely NO knowledge of double basses or playing that will have some 16 year old just slap it together with 5 minute epoxy for $150 and send you out the door. I know, because I was that 16 year old many decades ago! DON'T GO THERE!!!

You could say that it should cost you two hours wage for the luthier- anywhere from $50-150+ per hour depending on the "dude" and the rate. For me, that doesn't always reflect the actual price you pay. The neck joint is a major area on the instrument. That generally means that if anything goes wrong for the next several years in this area, regardless if it had anything to do with the repairperson's work, you'll likely bring it back with a sad look on your face and raise a stink about wating warranty work. I wouldn't take it to anyone who deosn't know and play basses and who will not offer some kind of warranty with their work. This adds more to the price of your repair. It simply depends on the luthier as to how much they tack on for this.

I did the same repair two years ago on an old Kay. Everything worked well, I got it cleaned up and added some shims to tighten the fit up even better, got it back in fantastic working order. 11 months later the bass comes back to me and the neck joint failed, so I made the call- no problem, it's under warranty- and I took it all apart again. Well, the repair held fantastic- so well that the original poplar blocks in the bass ripped apart ( common on Kays) and they caused the failure, not my neck reset. I covered it for the person, but it cost me a few days extra work that was never paid for. This is a reality of the work. Because of that, I always figure more into the cost.

The other end of the spectrum on your unnammed bass is this: You thought that by only spending $800 on some cheap bass shaped object made by 11 year old Chinese girls in a sweatshop, you were somehow getting a deal. Part of the way those things are priced so cheap is that they simply can't take the time and resources to build them correctly. In that case, the neck joint may have been put together with some modern glue that completely compromised the integrity of things- yellow glue, white glue, CA (superglue), epoxies, et cetera. Your repair person may not even touch the bass. It has been compromised from the beginning, now the wood is "polluted" by these adhesives, and any solution will be a compromise from what is the generally accepted correct way to repair it. It may take a couple of days or weeks to get it back together, the costs will be a lot more, and there may be no guarantee that it will last.

So for a ballpark price range: $300 at the lowest end, maybee up to $1000+ depending on the bass, location, and luthier. You may get an even higher price if the repair person doesn't seem interested or does not want to do it as an attempt to have you go away.

Hope that helps....

j.
www.condino.com

[Gary Lynch]

Originally Posted by james condino

Cyrus:

Sometimes the cynical responses and sarcasm around here get to me, so I'll try to offer an answer for you. First, please fill in the rest of your profile, so we can get an idea of where your location is. That has a lot to do with pricing- areas with high costs of living and large metropolitain areas tend to be more expensive than places where you can own a beautiful farm in the country for $75k. Low over head regularly (not always) translates to better deals for the customer.

So, you've got an as of yet undisclosed double bass with no dovetail and a clean separated neck from the block with no issues. The ideal situation would be that the repair person has to clean the old glue off the block and neck, dryfit everything so that it fits and aligns properly, and then hit it with a bit of hide glue. After that it should all string up fine. I've seen the rare case where this took two hours work (VERY rare).

I'm sure you could find a local electric guitar shop with absolutely NO knowledge of double basses or playing that will have some 16 year old just slap it together with 5 minute epoxy for $150 and send you out the door. I know, because I was that 16 year old many decades ago! DON'T GO THERE!!!

You could say that it should cost you two hours wage for the luthier- anywhere from $50-150+ per hour depending on the "dude" and the rate. For me, that doesn't always reflect the actual price you pay. The neck joint is a major area on the instrument. That generally means that if anything goes wrong for the next several years in this area, regardless if it had anything to do with the repairperson's work, you'll likely bring it back with a sad look on your face and raise a stink about wating warranty work. I wouldn't take it to anyone who deosn't know and play basses and who will not offer some kind of warranty with their work. This adds more to the price of your repair. It simply depends on the luthier as to how much they tack on for this.

I did the same repair two years ago on an old Kay. Everything worked well, I got it cleaned up and added some shims to tighten the fit up even better, got it back in fantastic working order. 11 months later the bass comes back to me and the neck joint failed, so I made the call- no problem, it's under warranty- and I took it all apart again. Well, the repair held fantastic- so well that the original poplar blocks in the bass ripped apart ( common on Kays) and they caused the failure, not my neck reset. I covered it for the person, but it cost me a few days extra work that was never paid for. This is a reality of the work. Because of that, I always figure more into the cost.

The other end of the spectrum on your unnammed bass is this: You thought that by only spending $800 on some cheap bass shaped object made by 11 year old Chinese girls in a sweatshop, you were somehow getting a deal. Part of the way those things are priced so cheap is that they simply can't take the time and resources to build them correctly. In that case, the neck joint may have been put together with some modern glue that completely compromised the integrity of things- yellow glue, white glue, CA (superglue), epoxies, et cetera. Your repair person may not even touch the bass. It has been compromised from the beginning, now the wood is "polluted" by these adhesives, and any solution will be a compromise from what is the generally accepted correct way to repair it. It may take a couple of days or weeks to get it back together, the costs will be a lot more, and there may be no guarantee that it will last.

So for a ballpark price range: $300 at the lowest end, maybee up to $1000+ depending on the bass, location, and luthier. You may get an even higher price if the repair person doesn't seem interested or does not want to do it as an attempt to have you go away.

Hope that helps....

j.
www.condino.com

A+

[Mark Carlsen]

Talk about an appraisal....A+++

[Jazzdogg]

With the benefit of Mr. Condino's cogent post, the OP should be in a position to make relatively intelligent inquiries of qualified luthiers.

Under these kinds of circumstances, it's a good idea to define the scope of work as explicitly as possible, both to assure that you and the luthier are in a position to have a legitimate "meeting of the minds," and for you to assess whether the prospective luthier seems qualified to do the work in the first place.

No one likes surprises, which is why a professional luthier will work to assure all parties receive as thorough an assessment as Mr. Condino provided, plus a written contract that specifies the scope of work, cost estimate, and timeframe for completion. A professional will often charge a minimum fee to provide a written assessment and detailed estimate; some will credit part of the initial assessment against the cost of services after a contract is executed.

Personally, if the person doing the work cannot communicate as clearly as Mr. Condino, I'd be wary of doing business with them.

Good luck!

[arnoldschnitzer]

I'd like to add something to James' excellent dissertation above. That is, on many commercially-made basses that I have seen, the neck joint is mostly make-believe. The necks fit where you can see, and that's about it. The rest of the mortise tends to be filled with a lot of gloppy glue. So before giving out a price to re-glue a neck, one has to take into consideration that it very well may require significant rebuilding of the neck joint. Otherwise, the job will likely be repeated in the near future.

[DallasStrings]

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

I'd like to add something to James' excellent dissertation above. That is, on many commercially-made basses that I have seen, the neck joint is mostly make-believe. The necks fit where you can see, and that's about it. The rest of the mortise tends to be filled with a lot of gloppy glue. So before giving out a price to re-glue a neck, one has to take into consideration that it very well may require significant rebuilding of the neck joint. Otherwise, the job will likely be repeated in the near future.

My thread earlier is a perfect example of what Arnold's talking about. I'm charging quite a bit for this repair and I'm, without a doubt, totaling the instrument. The only reason it's going forward is because it's a school instrument and replacement is not an option for them. Given the amount of time I've spent:

1. cleaning out the mystery glue
2. fitting a solid shim to replace the random chunks of wood thrown in there to adjust the neck angle
3. Adjusting the shim to the proper neck angle
4. Revarnishing the neck heel

It's expensive, I'm charging $500 or less out of sympathy. I should probably charge more..

Now if this was a nice bass, with a properly carved neck/block, where just the glue joint gave, I'd probably charge less than $100 to clean out the old glue and reglue it. Like James said, it depends on how much of my time it takes. It also depends on the luthier. My time would be justifiably far cheaper than say Arnold's or Jake's.

[Cyrus Pansch]

You guy's are the best!!!

Sorry about the sarcasm. I was just getting tired of waiting (2 days no responses), and didn't want my thread to go unanswered. So I add a little spice to the mix to get things rolling!!!

Thanks I'll post pictures when I get the basses to try & fix them. 1st repair job