Build tool question

[Basschair]

Chandler mentions the 4" hand held power plane in his list of tools for a build. I haven't had time to completely read the book which isn't a major issue as I haven't started to build anything yet (still in the materials and tools stage). I have skimmed it though, and haven't found at what point in the process he used this plane. Can someone point me in the right direction as to what part of the build it's involved in, and let me know how essential it was? I'm not trying to skimp on the tools, but I am trying to keep my spending down for my pregnant wife's sanity .

[Bob Branstetter]

I don't know what Mr. Chandler used it for, but I don't own one of them and I not sure what I would do with it. It is possible he used it for joining the plates, but I would suggest that you take the plates to a cabinet shop with a big jointer and pay them to do it for you. With a little luck, they might not even charge you if you hit it off right. If you aren't planning on making a lot of basses it's probably much cheaper to pay someone that already has the big expensive power tools rather than buying them and then have them gathering dust after you're done using it.


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[dennis duvall]

to remove material (wood) from the outside arches, also to plane flat the inside edges (where the front and back plate address the ribs. harbor freight has power planes pretty reasonable. it would absolutely kill me to carve a bass without one. good luck Dennis

[Basschair]

Great contrasting responses!

Bob: I do have a stationary 6" jointer at home, which is one of the reasons why I was curious about it. Still, I might take it to a pro shop anyway just to get it done absolutely right.

Dennis: It appears that I have a Harbor Freight shop in town, so perhaps I'll check it out. I was planning on doing most of my wood removal by hand, but that's probably being a little too cautious as well as naive.

It looks like he used a power plane to rough out the shape/size of the blocks before going to hand plane and sand paper.

Anyone ever use the Lancelot carving tool that he used to cut away much of the inside wood?

[dennis duvall]

I got and used the lancelot to remove the inside plate wood (down to 12mm) that is as far as i dared go, that thing eats wood like warm butter, for real! there is almost no resistance when cutting, it's used alot by ice and wood sculptors. serious tool for sure. also, with the power plane, my panormo back plate was slab cut and about 3.5" thick i filled 3 lawn and leaf bags with shavings! hence my comment "it would kill me". dennis

[Basschair]

Originally Posted by dennis duvall

I got and used the lancelot to remove the inside plate wood (down to 12mm) that is as far as i dared go, that thing eats wood like warm butter, for real! there is almost no resistance when cutting, it's used alot by ice and wood sculptors. serious tool for sure. also, with the power plane, my panormo back plate was slab cut and about 3.5" thick i filled 3 lawn and leaf bags with shavings! hence my comment "it would kill me". dennis

I'll have to give it some serious thought before trying that one.

[Bob Branstetter]

If your budget has room for tools such as the power plane that Dennis apparently finds useful, by all means get them. However, you are still going to need hand and finger planes to well execute areas such as the edges and the "C" bout areas on the tables. The most useful tool in my shop for carving the outer surfaces of the tables is the Sloan curved sole palm plane with both toothed and non-toothed blades. Arnold Schnitzer suggested that I get one several years ago and I mentally thank him every time I use it. With well sharpened hand planes I can remove a lot of wood and still have feel for the wood that is missing with power carving tools. I have a lot of hand held and stationary power tools in my shop, but it is the hand tools that I consider essential for carving bass tables.


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[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by Basschair

Bob: I do have a stationary 6" jointer at home, which is one of the reasons why I was curious about it. Still, I might take it to a pro shop anyway just to get it done absolutely right.



Anyone ever use the Lancelot carving tool that he used to cut away much of the inside wood?

I had a 6" jointer, but I ended up buying a long table 8" jointer for bass joining.

I also use a Lancelot type tool for roughing out the back side of the tables. I drill hundreds of holes with a radial drill press a few mm more than my desired end graduation before I start removing any wood with the Lancelot type tool. It does take plactice to use this tool. When your arm starts to get tired, lay the tool down and rest you arm. It is very easy to grind right through the plate if you aren't careful (as I did once in the "C" bout area!).

[Basschair]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

If your budget has room for tools such as the power plane that Dennis apparently finds useful, by all means get them. However, you are still going to need hand and finger planes to well execute areas such as the edges and the "C" bout areas on the tables. The most useful tool in my shop for carving the outer surfaces of the tables is the Sloan curved sole palm plane with both toothed and non-toothed blades. Arnold Schnitzer suggested that I get one several years ago and I mentally thank him every time I use it. With well sharpened hand planes I can remove a lot of wood and still have feel for the wood that is missing with power carving tools. I have a lot of hand held and stationary power tools in my shop, but it is the hand tools that I consider essential for carving bass tables.


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Bob, I couldn't agree with you more about hand tools. I usually leave the power tools for roughing out the edges to general shape and do all carving by hand.

How do you flatten the plates where they meet the ribs, as Dennis mentioned? Block/bench/jack plane?

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by Basschair

Bob, I couldn't agree with you more about hand tools. I usually leave the power tools for roughing out the edges to general shape and do all carving by hand.

How do you flatten the plates where they meet the ribs, as Dennis mentioned? Block/bench/jack plane?

Depending on the situation, I use a block plane and/or a sanding board (sand paper glued to a piece of 3/4" plywood.)

[mpm]

+1 on the Sloan curved plane! And Kutzall makes a doughnut grinding disk in three different grits, waaay safer (if slower) than the Lancelot.

[mpm]

Oh yeah, one time I made a 4 foot by 5 foot sanding board to level a garland. Took two people but it worked...

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Basschair

How do you flatten the plates where they meet the ribs, as Dennis mentioned? Block/bench/jack plane?

Its much easier to flatten the ribs where they meet the plates, rather than the other way around. That's what you use the sanding board for, not so much for flattening the plates, which should have been planed flat at the edges before you started carving.

For flatting the edges of the ribs, I find my #6 and #4 stanley planes work really well, then finish with a sanding board laid across the garland.

[jimmyduded]

something about using a tool named lancelot scares me, in all of my projects ive done(you can count them on two hands) i really like to keep it simple, it minimizes room for mistakes and overall leaves the project very well done, roughing it out with power tools is nice, but if i were you, i wouldnt blow the money on it, unless you plan or buliding alot of basses or working on things that would require this tool, i believe it was matthew tucker who told me only to buy tools as i need them

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

Its much easier to flatten the ribs where they meet the plates, rather than the other way around. That's what you use the sanding board for, not so much for flattening the plates, which should have been planed flat at the edges before you started carving.

Good catch Matthew. I guess I didn't read Paul's question properly since I just assumed he was talking about the corpus.

[Don Harris]

I suppose whether or not to use power carving tools depends on how fast you want to get 'er done. I did it all by hand and enjoyed the "zen-ness" of it. If I were trying to make money doing it, I'd buy the power stuff for sure. Nick Lloyd recommended a shovel gouge which I want to check out. Google it to find it at Dick's. He also used the Bosch power planer if I recall correctly.

I made a sanding board on a sheet of MDF that I set on top of my graduation cradle (also MDF) for flattening the ribs after rough flattening with hand planes. Worked great. I did touch up the front plate on it a bit as well, as it had deformed a bit as I carved it.

[Basschair]

Thanks for all the help/suggestions guys. I'm going to have to give it some serious thought to the Lancelot and power planer. At the moment, I'm leaning towards the hand tools for the moment (I'll be using them for multiple projects) and a handheld belt sander (need it for refacing some cabinet doors anyway). The doughnut-disks (that mpm mentioned) sounds much more attractive than the Lancelot. Of course, I'm a serious sucker for good planes

[ctregan]

Unless your doing a fully carved back out of hardwoods, then you do not need the power tools. Spruce is really easy to carve and shape by hand.

[Basschair]

Originally Posted by ctregan

Unless your doing a fully carved back out of hardwoods, then you do not need the power tools. Spruce is really easy to carve and shape by hand.

It'll be a carved round back; I was planning on maple. I'm thinking you're right about the power tools. I really do enjoy spending time in the shop with some nice background music running and a side table with a few planes, chisels, gouges and a mallet.

[Matthew Tucker]

Have you read THIS lately?