Bumpers, again..

[KSB - Ken Smith]

I did a search and found a few Threads on the subject but I thought I would start another due to different reasons for adding them.

I 'tuned in' on several of the older Threads but this one is a little different.

I bought an old English Bass early in 2006 in much need of repair. Since it was a supposed Fendt (later discovered to be a Hart Bass) with the sound to match, the repair costs didn't scare me. One thing was that it had Bumpers on both sides, upper and lower Bouts. They were circular Ebony buttons *about 5/8" in diameter (*Arnold might have some left to measure).

My plan was to maybe put them only on one side when the Bass was done but when the Top, Back and Rib assembly were all apart and the restoration underway we noticed that the Bumpers were 'dowel' pinned somehow into the Ribs. This Bass had its Ribs completely doubled so this was not visible until the doubling was removed from the inside. Now, I had 8 holes in the Ribs that had to be filled.

The new plan was to make 8 new Bumpers and cover all the repaired holes. Heres some 'before and after' pics;


Sorry about the hard to see b4 pics. Here's the 'after' shots showing the new Bumpers;


The other day I was on an Orchestra gig and my buddy using my Gilkes mentions that I laid the Hart Bass down on the wrong side when he noticed the Bumpers on the 'up side'. I proudly said "it has Bumpers on both sides". The Gilkes he was using only had them on one side.

My Loveri is now in restoration and nearing its completion. I just called Jeff Bollbach and told him I want Bumpers on the Bass when it's done. With the Loveri the Bumpers are very necessary since the Ribs are nearly flush with the Top and Back. The Back was just widened to overlap the Ribs a bit but the Top is still mostly flush. The Bumpers will help keep the edges from further damage. I will post the b4 and after of the Loveri when it's complete as well.

[toman]

I've often wondered why new basses don't just come with bumpers, and why bumpers are always square and so "utilitarian" looking. Couldn't they be a little more streamlined into the instrument and varnished to match? To me, it's like quivers, pickups, extentions, mutes, bibs etc. Too much junk hanging off of basses, even though it's all functional.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

too much junk..lol I hear you.

A few weeks ago I got invited to play the 'Trout' with a Chamber group (vln,viola,cello, piano and bass added).

I brought my Hart Bass. It had that fancy looking C-extension, a Bow quiver, Mute by the tailpiece and small rag under the TP/Quiver to wipe the strings. For the photo shoot, the Bass is mostly bare from these extras which I do have on the Bass to gig.

The Martini has even gone out with all of the above plus a pickup.

When I laid the Bass down for a break the Violinist said to me "that's a lotta hardware you got there" while looking at the Scroll/Ext and Bass overall. I smiled and just said "yup", keepin it short (REAL hard for me to do)..lol

New Basses with Bumpers installed is like buying a Car with the Cell Phone, GPS and rear TV/Vid?game screen installed. Also, a trash bag, air freshener, and a holstered ice scraper...

Or, maybe not..lol

If you buy a new Bass made by a Luthier or custom ordered from a shop that has control over the making and varnishing, I am sure you can request Bumpers added to the Ribs before it's Varnished.

[Jake]

I just got a new axe and I requested bumpers because there's some gigs in the area where you play outside between two buildings on a surface of laid brick that's very smooth, but could eat the edges of a bass. Anyway, so here I have this new bass which absolutly smokes the bass I had before which was made by the same luthier. The bumpers aren't exactly beautiful to look at but not something people 10+ feet away are going to notice.

[bribass]

This past summer I decided to finally get my Prescott much need bumpers. The G side upper bout edge was really taking some abuse and I was carrying around an Ingles bass stand to all my gigs just to avoid further damage.

A couple of years back Arnold seemed to groan a bit when I asked him about doing the job. Seems that each one would require lots of individual custom fitting. From a long life of heavy repairs this bass has some amorphous and uneven rib linings.

I had some gigs in Long Island, NY this summer, so I took it to Jeff. Eventhough I was initially repelled by the idea of gluing rubber to the bass, Jeff talked me into his fitted black neoprene bumpers instead of hard wood. He sited several advantages to the neoprene. The wood ones would be harder to fit unless I put them further away from the top and back, directly onto the ribs. This would run the risk of possible future damage from the bumpers popping thru or cracking the rib wood. Wood bumpers would have to be glued on by hide glue or some other very strong glue and would not adhere well unless the varnish underneath was sanded down to then bare wood. Short of this some kind of screw or pin would have to be used to prevent the wood bumpers from coming off, perhaps taking precious original wood off along w/ them. OTOH Neoprene bumpers could be glued on with contact cement which would not damage the finish and could easily be re installed by the player if one were to come off w/o any damage to the bass.
The neoprene looks like ebony and provides the bass w/ a bit of cushion when placed down on a hard bare surface. I'm less than 5' 7" tall and play w/ the end pin out only about 2 inches, so when I place this bass down w/ its fairly large lower bouts it rolls along that bout edge a bit. For this reason we decided to place four pairs of bumpers on the G side. One pair on the upper bout and three pair spread along the lower bout. Now I can roll the bass down along the lower bout w/ a pleasant cushiony feel knowing that my edges are being fully protected. In almost 5 months of heavy use none of them have come off yet, knock on wood . Jeff shapes them by hand very nicely so they look good as well. I'll post pix of them when I get a chance.

Ken, I too had read those bumper TB threads in the past and had agreed w/ you about only wanting to use hard wood or maybe leather in a pinch, but I have to admit that Jeff's neoprene really has worked out well and they can always be easily removed w/o any damage. No more schlepping a bass stand (unless I'm doubling on BG on a crowded stage) or a rubber mat to gigs. You may want to consider them for the Loveri, which I saw, BTW, with the top off in Jeff's shop. A beautiful bass.

[Jake]

I'm not try to derail this, but I am looking for some quick answers. BriBass, does the Ingles stand support the front and back of your Prescott evenly enough? With my bass, it only supports the back and there a lot of air between the front of the bass and the supports.

[Jake]

BTW, my bumpers are made out of dense but pretty soft rubber.

[bribass]

Originally Posted by Jake

With my bass, it only supports the back and there a lot of air between the front of the bass and the supports.

Jake, not quite sure what you mean, but my experience w/ the Ingles is that it works best when you have the lower support bars low enough to just cradle the lower bouts, with most of the weight being taken by the end pin making contact w/ the floor. With this method the bass leans back slightly and is securely cradled by both the upper arm and lower supports w/o the rubber on the supports getting torn up by the weight of the bass. Also, glue those rubber end caps of the support bars on before they pop off and get lost, exposing those bass scratching metal prongs . BTW- Neoprene bumpers work well on outdoor surfaces like brick.

BG

[Jake]

I had it with the bass off the ground with the endpin all the way up. I am going to try it with the endpin down in a minute.

About the bumpers, mine are made out of what seems to be medium density rubber. Neoprene seems like it would be more spongey.

[bribass]

Originally Posted by Jake

I had it with the bass off the ground with the endpin all the way up. I am going to try it with the endpin down in a minute.

About the bumpers, mine are made out of what seems to be medium density rubber. Neoprene seems like it would be more spongey.

I believe that the Ingles was designed to be used in the way I described, but it is certainly not obvious from their product info. I didn't know this when I first got mine either. BTW- the ribs on my Prescott are about 9 inches wide.

Jeff B. called the the material neoprene. Whatever it is it's pretty dense black rubber. Not that spongey.

Happy Winter Solstice Holiday Thing ,

BG

[KSB - Ken Smith]

On the Loveri, you saw the Back off, not the top. The Top/Ribs/Neck are still attached. It is the Back that is getting all the much needed work. The Back made with some crotch or butt end knotted wood that looks like a Cat's Eye figure wise..

On the Neoprene, Jeff used that same stuff for the under side of the 'fingers' on my Bisiach Extension. It works great by the way and I look forward to getting my Loveri back sometime next month with some new Neoprene Bumpers on it. I think I'll request them on the Storioni as well.

As far as how much I lay the Bass down, it's not much. I usually lean the Bass C-bout on a chair. When I first saw the Philly Orch., it looked like they had Stools with a side chair for the Bass. I looked high and low for this product and came up empty. Then one day after meeting Hal Robinson I emailed him asking about it and he told me the just place a chair next to each stool as a tradition they have there. Well, I've been doing the chair thing all my life so I've stuck with it. On occasion, there is no chair around to lean the Bass on and I have to lay it down. That's when I need the Bumpers.

[Jake]

Putting one of those basses like the Gilkes, Hart, or Italian basses on a chair just gives me the heebie-jeebies. Perfect for some doofuss cellist or violist to trip over.
I saw a picture of Max Dimoff's bass on a chair like that.

[toman]

I try not to even leave my Shen on stage, if I can help it. Cellists swarming through a row of basses gives me the creeps; even moreso if the basses are leaned on stools or chairs. And the guys who leave expensive bows on music stands... man, do I have OCD? I don't let that bow out of my sight! If it's not on my strings, its in a case!

[basstef]

My bumpers are 4 small but thick pieces of leather, cut and glued to only one rib.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Jake

Putting one of those basses like the Gilkes, Hart, or Italian basses on a chair just gives me the heebie-jeebies. Perfect for some doofuss cellist or violist to trip over.
I saw a picture of Max Dimoff's bass on a chair like that.

If the entire Philly Orch. can use a chair, so can I. The Bass is more easily seen and people wont be stepping over the Neck or walking around the endpin and tripping over it. I've done it for years and trust it. Educate the people around you and maybe they wont walk as close to the Basses.

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I think that different qualities of bumper materials may be more appropriate for different qualities of basses. As my bass cost me under $3k, the idea of having expensive wooden or leather bumpers fitted by a luthier didn't seem practical. I bought a $10 V-belt, bottle of titebond hide glue and went at it. A light scuffing of the varnish was all that was required for the glue to hold and they have been secure for over a year.
Troubled by unevenness in the bass as it sat on the floor, I recently removed a bumper on the lower bout to add a thicker one. All that it required was firm pressure to twist it off and it came off with no damage to the bass. Adding a 1/4" piece of rubber to the back of the bumper, again with hide glue did the trick.
From a couple of feet, they look like ebony and do the job nicely.
I believe Paul Warburton gets credit, or blame if you like, for this.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

If the entire Philly Orch. can use a chair, so can I. The Bass is more easily seen and people wont be stepping over the Neck or walking around the endpin and tripping over it. I've done it for years and trust it. Educate the people around you and maybe they wont walk as close to the Basses.

Hey, wait a minute, I just said it makes me a little nervous. I know a bass player who owns an old german flatback and it fell off a chair on it's own. So now this bass will be worth less than the cost to really fix it.

[Sam Sherry]

I'm extremely comfortable with my $2.49 investment in bumpers. Four stacks of two leaves four for spares!

Even the meanest bass can benefit for half the cost of a sandwich.

[bribass]

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

I'm extremely comfortable with my $2.49 investment in bumpers. Four stacks of two leaves four for spares!

Even the meanest bass can benefit for half the cost of a sandwich.

What are those?

BG

[glenfong]

Originally Posted by bribass

What are those?

BG

looks like self-adhesive cabinet door bumpers or feet? I put brown colored square furniture bumpers on my db. Found 'em in different sizes and colors at the hardware store.

followed Sam's idea from an earlier thread. Thanks Sam!

Best regards, Glen