buzz mystery in a '41 kay

Jack6 · #1 08-28-2006, 07:09 AM

Hi out there.

I have buzz that seems to be coming from the lower back part of the bass- a snary, cidada like buzz that spreads from the A and D into all the notes. I have glued up all the open seams and took it to a very skillful luthier twice- the second time to take the top off and get inside. He sealed up some loose seams in the plywood, eliminated all splinters and loose glue and went over it very thoroughly- it seemed to work for the first two days but now its back. I can tap almost anywhere on the front or back and hear the rattle, but it seems closest in that lower back portion of the instrument. The soundpost was recently replaced and seems to fit well. The are no open seams and the luthier took great care in going over the plywood itself. At this point I feel pretty stumped and stalled out- my recording project and therefore my whole life plan seems to be hanging on solving this thing. Does anyone out there have any suggestions?

-J

dylanjohnson · #2 08-28-2006, 09:35 AM

my guess? the bass bar..... Sorry. It happened to my Kay. I know you are hearing it in the back, but....

nicklloyd · #3 08-28-2006, 09:39 AM

It usually isn't the bass bar. If your luthier had the bass apart, he would have seen the bass bar unglued.

Have you visited the Newbie threads and looked under "Buzzes"? There is an exhaustive list of what can cause things to buzz.

What kind of endpin/tailwire are you using on this bass?

Bob Branstetter · #4 08-28-2006, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicklloyd

Have you visited the Newbie threads and looked under "Buzzes"? There is an exhaustive list of what can cause things to buzz.

What kind of endpin/tailwire are you using on this bass?

Here's one of the threads that is quite extensive.

Things that make bass buzz.

I'm with Nick about looking at the endpin and tailpiece area. If Jack6's '41 Kay still has the factory endpin, that is where I would be looking first. Even if it doesn't, I would still spend some time examining that area carefully.

joel kelsey · #5 08-28-2006, 10:26 AM

Hi,
same thing with my Kay but it is the bass bar. I cannot justify taking the top off so I got a new bass. Plywood can only take you so far. Have you thought about getting a new bass? Right now there are a lot of cheap basses on the market. I have seen carved basses for 2 or 3 thousand dollars. I hear those Shen basses are good for the money. I hope it all works out for you. I had to record with my buzzy bass but it did not come through on the recording (I used a mic). Anyways, I wish you luck.

dylanjohnson · #6 08-28-2006, 06:52 PM

yeah, nick's right, your luthier would know if the bass bar came unglued.

jasonheath · #7 08-28-2006, 08:55 PM

I have a 1950s-era Kay bass, and it is holding up really well. Plywood definitely has its limits, but this bass is not half bad. Still, it is hard to justify taking the top off of a plywood bass, especially when decent Chinese basses are so cheap.

Jack6 · #8 08-29-2006, 10:15 AM

Hello again- I identified the source.
Its separation in the plywood in the lower portion of the back of the bass- I can hear it click and crunch when I press it. I suspect its the outermost ply. There's only one seam in the back and it seems to be tightly sealed, so I don't even know how one would go about getting glue in there. Or how I could know that the old glue wouldn't continue to disintegrate and allow separation between other plys or in other regions of the bass. I feel a lot of dedication to this instrument- I think it really sings more than even a lot of wood basses. Does this happen often in older plywood instruments? Is there hope?

(bass bar's solid. Endpin's replaced, but has occasionally given a rattle- I'm planning on sawing it down a couple of inches. Anchor is new- sailing cord of some kind- wound steel. I can hear something loose in the tail piece by tapping on it, but I can't figure out what. It doesn't appear to contribute the buzz.)

Thanks for all of your replies.
-J

Jack6 · #9 08-29-2006, 10:17 AM

Hello again- I identified the source.
Its separation in the plywood in the lower portion of the back of the bass- I can hear it click and crunch when I press it. I suspect its the outermost ply. There's only one seam in the back and it seems to be tightly sealed, so I don't even know how one would go about getting glue in there. Or how I could know that the old glue wouldn't continue to disintegrate and allow separation between other plys or in other regions of the bass. I feel a lot of dedication to this instrument- I think it really sings more than even a lot of wood basses. Does this happen often in older plywood instruments? Is there hope?

(bass bar's solid. Endpin's replaced, but has occasionally given a rattle- I'm planning on sawing it down a couple of inches. Anchor is new- sailing cord of some kind- wound steel. I can hear something loose in the tail piece by tapping on it, but I can't figure out what. It doesn't appear to contribute the buzz.)

Thanks for all of your replies.
-J

Jake deVilliers · #10 08-29-2006, 01:56 PM

Take it to the closest repairman.

He'll slit the wood, introduce some glue and seal the slice afterwards. No problem.

Many old ply basses sound better than some solid wood instruments and live long and musical lives.

Jake

nicklloyd · #11 08-29-2006, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack6

I can hear something loose in the tail piece by tapping on it, but I can't figure out what.

That is probably the steel cable rubbing against the wood of the tailpiece. Have this section of the cable coated in shrinkwrap rubber (used in electrical work... easy to find at the hardware store).

lhoward · #12 08-29-2006, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack6

Hello again- I identified the source.
Its separation in the plywood in the lower portion of the back of the bass- I can hear it click and crunch when I press it. I suspect its the outermost ply. There's only one seam in the back and it seems to be tightly sealed, so I don't even know how one would go about getting glue in there. Or how I could know that the old glue wouldn't continue to disintegrate and allow separation between other plys or in other regions of the bass. I feel a lot of dedication to this instrument- I think it really sings more than even a lot of wood basses. Does this happen often in older plywood instruments? Is there hope?

(bass bar's solid. Endpin's replaced, but has occasionally given a rattle- I'm planning on sawing it down a couple of inches. Anchor is new- sailing cord of some kind- wound steel. I can hear something loose in the tail piece by tapping on it, but I can't figure out what. It doesn't appear to contribute the buzz.)

Thanks for all of your replies.
-J

I've got a similar problem, only in the top just below the bridge, so I thought yours might also be delaminated plys. Then I saw your post above. I mention this only because mine is also a '41 Kay, an S-8 model that I've owned since 1966 and I'm trying to decide how to handle this. Sometimes shifting the bridge ever so slightly helps. But in the end, taking it to a shop and have the top removed to fix it will probably be necessary.

Lloyd Howard

Jack6 · #13 08-30-2006, 10:43 AM

[quote=Jake deVilliers]Take it to the closest repairman.

He'll slit the wood, introduce some glue and seal the slice afterwards. No problem.

That was exactly the idea I had yesterday, but I wasn't sure if it was a known technique. I posted a new thread to see what solutions people knew of, but this one seems the most logical.
Might be hard if the separation extends deeper into the plys, but its worth a shot.
Feeling somewhat hopefull. Thanks.