C Extension -- Effect on DB Sound -- Jazz

[Sam Sherry]

I play a five year old Upton European-built "Carcassi" model bass strung with Spiro Orchs. I really dig the sound of the bass.

Ever since I first heard Ron Carter dip below the nut on VSOP #1 (which would be what, 1976?) I've thought it would be fun to have a C extension. I have the chance to get one of the "two-wheeler" models that doesn't require a scroll-hole.

Any comments on whether installing a wooden, single-capo C extension has positively or negatively affected the sound of your bass for playing jazz?

[Uncletoad]

Good question. I'd like to know that too.

[Ben Rolston]

I'm curious person number three.

[Kevin Hsieh]

i'm number 4

[robobass]

I don't know of anyone ever who complained that installation of a wooden fingered C-Extension lost them sound. In almost all cases known to me, players report a significant improvement in resonance in the low register above the E.

The two wheel design is very new, though. The dynamics are different enough that I think it needs to be evaluated separately from the traditional "hole-thru-scroll" approach, and I've not yet seen any useful feedback on this. The extension to which I believe you refer is truly a masterpiece of engineering, aesthetics, and craftsmanship. How it compares functionally to the old-fashioned, scroll-butchering technique, is a question that for me is a long way from being answered.
Hey! It took like five years before I sold my first Capo!
Robobass

[Eric Hochberg]

Originally Posted by Sam Sherry

I have the chance to get one of the "two-wheeler" models that doesn't require a scroll-hole.

Do you have a link for one of these?

[txstatebass]

I don't have one of those new fangled extensions, just the old school "scroll Butchering" type. I LOVE it. The first time I took it to a jam and some one called So What, hitting that low d made some heads turn and some other bassist green. Also, I am happy to report a significant improvement in the tone of my beat up old ply. The E just seems to sing more (of course I would too with a few extra inches added). Go for it man!

[flip18436572]

Are you talking about these?

extensions @ KCSTRINGS.com

[Jeremy Allen]

A luthier told me once that if I wanted to see what effect a C-extension would have on the overall resonance and output of my bass, I should take a big ol' C-clamp, tighten it on to the pegbox or scroll, and give it a spin. Which, of course, made me want to have the extension removed from my English bass when I purchased it, wondering how much it would open up the instrument.

Then again, those low notes are nice...and stopping the extension on a low D seems to open the bass up in a wonderful way and makes me think Joel Quarrington and Red Mitchell were on to something. Like Larry Hurst says, everything dampens the resonance of a bass: holding it, leaning it against yourself, putting strings on it. The old saw: "If you want more sound from the bass section, hire more bassists." Like on "Free Jazz!"

[Sam Sherry]

Originally Posted by Flip

Are you talking about the KC Strings machine?

No. That's a lovely machine but it's made of metal. I'm talking about the Upton machine.

For the purpose of this discussion let's just say that I'm purchasing an Upton because I like Gary Upton. (In fact, I'm Gary's lawyer, but I will actually pay green dollars, full list, for the extension just like everybody else .)

[flip18436572]

Thanks for the link. I am really, really new to this stuff, so I am just looking for all the information possible. I have read through so many threads that my brain is overloaded and I am not taking enough of it in.

Time for me to go down and do some scales to prove how bad I really am.

[Randy Ward]

Hi Sam;
I have an EXT made by Arnold on my Cleveland but it has been on the bass since I got it. I am jazz only & it is a finger style EXT and so far I have yet to get a capo. It has a hole through the scroll, but as far as I can tell there is really limited contact with the scroll itself. the unit fits above the nut with a single nail sized pin that is under the fingerboard so it sort of 'floats' and is held there by the strings tension.

I too have always wondered what effect it has on the sound. At one point I was going to get together with TB'r macmrkt since we have similar basses but his is non EXT. For a while we were even using the same strings so it would have been a pretty good test. but so far we've haven't gotten together. Arnold called me when he finished the bass as it was the first Ply Cleveland he done with a EXT. He made a positive comment about the sound but can't remember what it was.

Anyway I say go for it like txstatebass says. One thing I really love about it is using it on ballads. Body and Soul? yeah baby I got a big ol' Db right here!

Off Topic: at some point I do want to get at least one real deal capo, but for low D I have been using a clamp style guitar capo (!) and keep it on the quiver when I don't use it. works fine but only for D

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Randy Ward

Hi Sam;
I have an EXT made by Arnold on my Cleveland but it has been on the bass since I got it. ...... Arnold called me when he finished the bass as it was the first Ply Cleveland he done with a EXT. He made a positive comment about the sound but can't remember what it was.

Look at that.

Do you remember how much extra that was?

That's looking exactly right for me.

"how low can you go, how low can you go"

[Randy Ward]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Look at that.

Do you remember how much extra that was?

That's looking exactly right for me.

Uncletoad,
I can't remember the exact price for the option
and it may have changed in the two years since I had it.
It was quite a bit less than having it made a hybrid instead of a ply. under a grand I think.
but a email to Arnold should help.
I KNOW this is something you would dig Phil!!!!

here is a bit about Arnold's extensions

http://www.aesbass.com/extensions.htm

[KSB - Ken Smith]

I had this one from Arnold on my Morelli. Played Beethoven's 5th in concert and hit all the LOW notes with it.


Even with the Chromatic Capos when playing the Storm 16ths in the Beeth. 6th, The Ext. is being played fingered.



Last week I did a Bach thing with Violin and Oboe soloist with the Orch. The Bass and Cellos (only 1 Bass & 2Cellos in most of the first movement) had a busy part. I couldn't hear the Cellos at all so it felt like I was the 3rd soloist. I used the Martini and had the D-capo on (maybe Db too?) as it was in D-minor. All the low E's had to be fingered and when it was in octaves I played the Low E with the 1st finger and the E on the D-string with the 4th. The stretch is slightly more than half position but with a 41 1/2" String length, its' like half position with a 43" length of so.



Extensions are fun. When ever I use one for jazz, it always turns a few heads.

[Dave Whitla]

Although I don't do much jazz i do do (?) a fair bit of non-bowed music, in addition to small to medium sized classical stuff. I have the KC strings extension and would recommend it. The brass extension looks good on my 200 yr old French bass, IMO, and having the notes below E is fantastic I have gates on E, D, C sharp and C.

On my bass I didn't really feel that adding the extension opened it up particularly, but it certainly didn't hurt. The bass sounded pretty good to start with, so didn't really need opening up. My scroll is quite long, so luthier Tom Barrett extended my extension down to a B!! All the notes down to C are well focused, arco and pizz, and the B is not too bad either.

[robobass]

Originally Posted by Randy Ward

Off Topic: at some point I do want to get at least one real deal capo D

Just be sure to google before you buy. There many options available out there at a wide range of prices.

Robobass

[Randy Ward]

Originally Posted by robobass

Just be sure to google before you buy.

no need to google. you are the real deal dealer

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Randy Ward

I KNOW this is something you would dig Phil!!!!

Nnick Lloyd said he'd make one for me. I've been thinking about this for awhile. I finally played a Spirocore extended E and found it very nice. Sorta between a Stark and a Mittel. I can live with that. Gonna do that this year.

[Randy Ward]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Sorta between a Stark and a Mittel.
I can live with that.

that is my assessment as well

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Gonna do that this year.

looking forward to an extended toad