C Extension in New York

[bassman1489]

Hello everybody. I am considering installing a gated C-extension on my bass, and I wanted to get some opinions on the best brands, luthiers, prices, etc. I live in New Jersey, and go to college in NYC, and I am willing to travel in that general area. My 2 biggest concerns are time and money. I obviously want the best quality for the smallest amount of money, but I certainly don't want a cheap one that will cause problems further down the road.

Regarding the issue of time, I am looking for a fairly fast installation. Can anyone tell me how long it usually takes to install an extension? I was hoping to have it done over a school break, but that was with the assumption that it could be done in a week or so. Anything longer than that, and I'm going to have to look into borrowing or renting an instrument while mine is being worked on.

I would really like as many opinions as possible, so please leave as much information as you have. Thanks!

[KSB - Ken Smith]

The best I have seen are made by either Jeff Bollbach or Arnold Schnitzer. Nothing else that I have seen in that part of the country compares.

Price is not really negotiable. If you want the best, you will have to pay for it. Also, you can't rush good work. Get a bad extension and you will have to have it either re-done or replaced. Hence, haste makes waste.

Here's Jeffs latest Chromatic;

Here's a few that Arnold made for me. One of them with Jeff's custom chromatic latches;

These are the best looking, best working extensions I have seen and tried. Call them, your Bass will thank you for it.

[bassman1489]

Thanks a lot Ken!

I hope I didn't give the impression that I'm a cheap college student looking for a bargain. I am willing to spend however much it will cost to get me a high quality extension. I guess what I meant was that if there's a maker out there ripping people off, I wanna stay away from that person!

[salcott]

I've been very happy with my David Gage extension.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by salcott

I've been very happy with my David Gage extension.

One of my Orchestra friends has one from Gage and paid 2k for a single latch ext. It cost him as much as my Chromatics and needs to be re-worked and can't play half the notes on it that I play on my Chromatic Extensions. He sits next to me in Orchestra so I have experience with this Gage extension.

Arnold and Jeff use only 100% solid aged Ebony Extensions, not just a this Veneer like other put on theirs.

Like I said, I have seen all the others from Gage, Merchant, Kolstein and Eibert. None of them come close to the quality and playability of Jeff's or Arnolds. I have had 6 Basses fitted with extensions made in the last 3 years and each Bass was improved with it.

[RCWilliams]

as long as we're on the subject of extensions, is there a c or b extended string that is in significant use for extensions larger than about 3.5mm that any one is aware of? I am working on a new design for c/b extensions and I want it to be useable for all common extended strings.

[robobass]

You might also consider Bill Merchant. He makes a high quality and dependable extension with gates available (google "double bass C-Extension") for the best price.
Robobass

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by robobass

You might also consider Bill Merchant. He makes a high quality and dependable extension with gates available (google "double bass C-Extension") for the best price.
Robobass

You get what you pay for. His is a Maple ext with a thin Ebony laminate on the Maple, not solid Ebony. The Capos are not of the same grade used by Jeff or Arnold whether tunable or not.

I am sure most of the other extensions work on average for for extended Orchestral use and not decoration, get the best you can find. It is well worth the difference in price if any. Robertsons is the other one many Pros go for. Mine are as good as I have played a couple of theirs as well.

Edit: Ok, I get it now! Robo IS the guy making the Capos that Bill uses as I just checked his profile and link. Now I know what's going on here. Sorry pal (Rob Anzellotti), I like what Jeff and Arnold does a little better especially with the custom Ebony Fingers and pads they use. Your's looks like a nice idea as well but not my cup of tea.

[CPike]

Originally Posted by RCWilliams

as long as we're on the subject of extensions, is there a c or b extended string that is in significant use for extensions larger than about 3.5mm that any one is aware of? I am working on a new design for c/b extensions and I want it to be useable for all common extended strings.

There is a thread on string gauges here http://www.talkbass.com/wiki/index.p..._String_Guages

The only 4th that I can think of that may be thicker than average would be spirocore stark - but I don't think they make it in extension length. BTW, I have one of your B extensions and I love it (put it on myself!). Can you give us any info on the new design?

Chris

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

You get what you pay for. His is a Maple ext with a thin Ebony laminate on the Maple, not solid Ebony. The Capos are not of the same grade used by Jeff or Arnold whether tunable or not.

I am sure most of the other extensions work on average for for extended Orchestral use and not decoration, get the best you can find. It is well worth the difference in price if any. Robertsons is the other one many Pros go for. Mine are as good as I have played a couple of theirs as well.

Edit: Ok, I get it now! Robo IS the guy making the Capos that Bill uses as I just checked his profile and link. Now I know what's going on here. Sorry pal (Rob Anzellotti), I like what Jeff and Arnold does a little better especially with the custom Ebony Fingers and pads they use. Your's looks like a nice idea as well but not my cup of tea.

I don't want to get into a word war with Ken, but I happen to like Rob's capos. I have them on my personal bass and have Zero complaints. There are many luthiers around the country who are using the all brass capos rather than going to the much more expensive and heavier ebony gates. They may not be for everyone, but they should not be dismissed as an inferior product.
The same applies to having all ebony extension as opposed to hard maple with an ebony fingerboard.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

I don't want to get into a word war with Ken, but I happen to like Rob's capos. I have them on my personal bass and have Zero complaints. There are many luthiers around the country who are using the all brass capos rather than going to the much more expensive and heavier ebony gates. They may not be for everyone, but they should not be dismissed as an inferior product.
The same applies to having all ebony extension as opposed to hard maple with an ebony fingerboard.

I agree with you Bob. I just like what I like better, that's all.

[robobass]

For those who absolutely prefer ebony fingers, My mounting brackets can be purchased with only a threaded brass stud instead of the finished finger. I have mentioned this to many people, but I guess I wasn't clear enough. I'll maybe try to address this on my site.

Robobass

Also, I've had a Merchant extension on my Pfretzchner for 15 years of professional classical work. I've never had a problem with it, nor have I ever heard of anyone who has. Say what you want about me, but please give Bill the credit he deserves

[Bob Branstetter]

Anyone who currently has an extension with only the "E" latched should seriously consider adding a set of Rob's little brass capos (latches/closers/gates) to convert it to full chromatic. I'm sure that anyone with reasonably good wood and metal working skills and an electronic tuner could install a set themselves in one evening. When I ordered my capos, I was thinking of making ebony fingers for them. However, after seeing how well they work as is, I have decided to leave them as-is with the leather wrapped brass arm. I also purchased one of Rob's brass bases for the "E" closer and will convert my existing ebony closer the next time I put my bass on the bench.

All of Rob's products are well designed and perform their intended function very well. In addition to being very reasonably priced, each capo adds only a little over an ounce (35 grams) to your extensions.

[kurt muroki]

I ordered the KC strings extension for my old bass and had it installed by Jeff Bollbach. It was a big mistake because the extension is just too heavy. I wish that there were an extension which does not damage the scroll and yet is just as easy to tune like a KC extension made from magnesium or some other light metal instead of brass.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

All of the ones from Arnold and Jeff are 'tension-adjustable' from the top of the Finger into the Screw. Jeff additionally made his Ebony fingers spring loaded. These are very fine adjustments that you can make and are the best I have seen. If the Extensions were not available from either of them along with the Robertson Extension (like Arnold's), I might consider Rob's chromatic pieces. I think they are nice but not as finely designed as the ones Jeff just made for me.

I have the same Brass adjusters on two Basses now. Both adjustable Brass sets are Jeff's but the one on the Hart had Arnold's tensioned Ebony fingers while the other is 100% Bollbach. That was maybe the first one he did like that and have it on my Bisiach which is my 'practice Bass' at home as well as my Jazz-type gigging Bass. The high dollar Basses I have are mainly for Orchestral Concerts only. Partly for usage set-up and partly for insurance purposes.

I love what Jeff has done with this idea. While the Ebony fingers from Arnold are the most comfortable on my Gilkes and Martini (he made this one first for me), the feel and petite-look of the Bisiach is the most compact and adjustable one I have had to date. Truly a work of art and not just an extension. Arnold shares that artistic achievement equally in my book. The latest one on the Hart is just a sight for sore eyes.

Making the Ebony Extension fit over/around each Scroll and feeding the String into the pegbox is a custom design for each Bass. Of the 6 extensions I have had made, not a single one would fit another of my Basses. The Bisiach Scroll is grafted into the Neck at a slight angle so the String goes in the middle of the Head. The Gilkes is thin at the Top and is one-with-it's-Neck, no Graft. The String feeds thru the Ear of the Scroll. The Martini has Gears in reverse order (done by me b4 I decided to put the Extension on) so the String slightly hits the upper wall of the Pegbox under the Scroll. The Hart is a short 3-string Scroll and with barely enough pitch to avoid being cut. The regular slightly tunable fixed Brass inserts would have hit the Scroll on the C#/Db so the only option was to use the smaller tunable Brass pieces that Jeff had made for the Bisiach. I thank Jeff for getting them to Arnold in a day so Arnold could finish the Bass up in time for my visit to pick up the Bass. It was about 18 months since I bought the Bass 'till I was able to play it. My Gilkes had to be restored before the Hart so the wait was longer not to mention the huge job performed on the Hart to bring it back to life.

[Schoolhouse]

I have used the Bass Capos with success. They are a very well made product. It does take some artistry to make an elegant extension in either maple or ebony. The use of maple is not for economy but for weight. The 5-7 mm ebony cap that most of of us use is hardly a cheap veneer but thick enough to be dressed several times. If you want the extra weight, I'll be glad to make the extension in ebony. It saves a fair amount of time matching wood grain and varnish.

[rachelcalin]

I found this thread while searching for 'extension capos'; I currently only have the E gate on my extension & was curious to see what other people's experiences have been.

In the interest of full disclosure I guess I need to put it out there that philosophically I feel like all extensions are a bastardization of an otherwise lovely instrument known as the double bass, and only further serve to separate us from the rest of the string family. Could you even imagine a violinist labotomizing the scroll of their delgesu to play a few extra notes? Give me a break....

Ok, now that Ive ranted & got that off my chest, a few comments regarding the above mentioned extension ideas.....

My extension is made by David Gage; I believe there may be some misleading info above regarding his extensions, particularly when it comes to wood/quality issues. When I went to get the extension, I was offered numerous types of wood as options. Ebony, Or many other types of wood combined with ebony, of course.... I was offered maple, poplar, koa, whatever wood I wanted was what I was told.

I actually opted for the curly--flamey maple/ebony so as to mimic the look of the neck/fingerboard of my bass.... like a mini fingerboard..... except one thats way up high..... and will eventually give you bursitis... hehehe just kidding... sorta.

But seriously, calling the ebony on gage's extension's a 'thin veneer' is sort of silly... if that's true, then your fingerboard is also a thin veneer on the neck of your bass. plus, my scroll is relatively small/delicate, with the original hand tooled brass gears from 1795 that match the scroll size perfectly; i needed an extension which would esthetically match the rest of the package & gage definitely delivered.

[Justin K-ski]

I'm with Rachel as far as extensions go, that being said...

I almost had a KC extension installed earlier this year, the primary selling point being adjustable intonation in the capos. Some colleagues with more conventional extensions have had problems with the pitch of the closed E not matching the open C. Thoughts?

[robobass]

Originally Posted by Justin K-ski

Some colleagues with more conventional extensions have had problems with the pitch of the closed E not matching the open C. Thoughts?

That is usually caused by the C-Extension being the wrong length. see this thread.
If the extension board is too short, the open C and the closed E won't match. Fancier extensions have an adjustable "C-nut". I don't find this to be really necessary, but the nut does have to be placed in the right spot, and some adjusting is required on first setup.
Robobass

[JayR]

Originally Posted by kurt muroki

I ordered the KC strings extension for my old bass and had it installed by Jeff Bollbach. It was a big mistake because the extension is just too heavy. I wish that there were an extension which does not damage the scroll and yet is just as easy to tune like a KC extension made from magnesium or some other light metal instead of brass.

Yeah, I'm dealing with the same thing. I had a KC strings extension installed a couple of years ago pretty soon after purchasing my current bass, and while I really appreciate the low cost (I had a friend do the install for only like $100 on top of it), I've had no end of problems with the thing that I've had to constantly adjust and re-adjust. The flipper on the Eb gate kept bumping into the E gate if both were open and causing some train wrecks, all the leather pads have come off and I've had to either glue them back on repeatedly or replace them entirely. I ended up removing the C gate and having it replaced by a nut, so as to raise the height of the open C enough to make it speak at higher volumes.

Also, does anyone else have a fingered extension intalled on a bass with ebony or rosewood tuners? I'm wondering how common this is, because I feel like extension passages that I think are difficult are only difficult because I have to play around projecting tuning knobs.