Can a realist pickup affect the acoustic tone?

joel kelsey · #1 09-03-2006, 06:51 PM

Hi again,
Thais may be a stupid question, but I will ask anyway.
Recently I upgraded from plywood to nice carved bass. I had the realist pickup installed professionally on the new bass before I bought it. I noticed right away that certain notes (played pizz) on the E and A string sounded quieter and not as full. The sustain is still there, but the volume and warmth has reduced dramaticly. These are important notes too, the low Dflat, C, B, and Bflat on the A string as well as the low F on the E string. I put a brand new E and A on to see if it would help and it didn't. The bass played very "even" before I put the pickup on. Is it the pickup? Could the luthiers have screwed up on the bridge placement? Or do I just need a new setup because the bass has never had a realist on it before? I suppose it could be a million things. Has anyone else had the same problem with the realist? I have used it incident free on my plywood for three years. If it is the realist hurting my natural sound, what pickup would you guys recomend replacing it with, keeping in mind that I really like the realist.

Thanks again
Joel

Bob Branstetter · #2 09-03-2006, 09:50 PM

If you don't have an adjustable bridge, it is possible that the feet of the bridge no longer conform properly to the curvature of top with the added thickness of the Realist pickup under one foot. If that is the case, have your luthier refit the bridge or add adjusters to it. This usually isn't a problem with adjustable bridges since they have a certain amount of built-in play that can compensate for the extra thickness of the pickup.

Alex Scott · #3 09-03-2006, 10:06 PM

You might try taking it off and see if it is better. I also had good results a long time ago using plumber's tape around the element to hold it in place.

There used to be a little bump inside the pickup that would cause a bridge without adjusters to not sit evenly, but if I fit that inside the hole on the bottom of my adjustable bridge's feet, all was well.

joel kelsey · #4 09-05-2006, 02:50 PM

It has adjusters. I think the bridge is sitting evenly height wise. That is what you meant, right? The bridge looks like it's sitting kind of funny on the pickup itself. At first, part of the foot of the bridge was not touching anything. The luthiers messed with it and got it on there a little bit better, but it still looks uneven. It looks weird, I don't know how to explain it...............I think I am going to take it somewhere else. Could the bridge itself be in the wrong spot?
Thanks
Joel

Bob Branstetter · #5 09-05-2006, 03:46 PM

When in doubt, getting a second opinion from another experienced bass luthier is a very good idea.

arnoldschnitzer · #6 09-07-2006, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Scott

There used to be a little bump inside the pickup that would cause a bridge without adjusters to not sit evenly, but if I fit that inside the hole on the bottom of my adjustable bridge's feet, all was well.

That little bump (actually there are two) needs to be under pressure because that's the piezo element. Piezos that are not under pressure put out a weaker, drier signal. This is a controversial thing about the realist: over time it dents the top of the bass, but that's the way it works best.

Andy Allen · #7 09-07-2006, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joel kelsey

It has adjusters. I think the bridge is sitting evenly height wise. That is what you meant, right? The bridge looks like it's sitting kind of funny on the pickup itself. At first, part of the foot of the bridge was not touching anything. The luthiers messed with it and got it on there a little bit better, but it still looks uneven. It looks weird, I don't know how to explain it...............I think I am going to take it somewhere else. Could the bridge itself be in the wrong spot?
Thanks
Joel

This is exactly how I felt about the installation of the Realist on my old bass. I pestered Lisa Gass, my luthier, about it and she improved it as best she could and patiently explained the same thing that Arnold said in the post above. I've learned to live with it - and it's exactly the same now that pick-up is fitted to my new (to me) Juzek.

The real solution? I have a Fishman Full circle waiting in the wings for when I get around to fitting it.

Andy

joel kelsey · #8 09-07-2006, 12:12 PM

Full Circle huh? Is that the one that requires a drill? Or is it the one that is an adjuster itself? Too bad I like the realist. I have been pretty happy with it so I have not kept up with the new stuff. Has anybody tried the pickup with the box you can clip on your belt(K and K?)? All I have dealt with other than the realist is underwoods and fishmen. I am open to suggestions.

Thanks again
Joel

Bob Branstetter · #9 09-07-2006, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joel kelsey

I am open to suggestions.

My advice would be to not think about buying another pickup until you have proof that it is the Realist that is causing the problem.

joel kelsey · #10 09-08-2006, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

My advice would be to not think about buying another pickup until you have proof that it is the Realist that is causing the problem.

Is the realist going to do serious damage to the top, aside from denting it? Would the top being dented in be considered serious damage? Would the dent damage the bass's tone?

Bob Branstetter · #11 09-08-2006, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joel kelsey

Is the realist going to do serious damage to the top, aside from denting it? Would the top being dented in be considered serious damage? Would the dent damage the bass's tone?

No, No, and No.

mburd · #12 09-12-2006, 07:33 AM

..if that's a word..
With my last string change, the bridge's fore-aft-lean-osity shifted just enough to impact the pressure pattern of the bridge foot on my Realist. The result was a marked decrease in volume and sustain on the E; acoustically as well as electrically. Tipping the bridge just *very* slightly completely restored the integrity of the sound. This experience may also speak to how much new strings, in this case Spiro Solos, can initially stretch, and the importance of a square fit. Next time maybe I'll allow for some settling time between each string.
I can't imagine a better amplified sound is possible for me at this time. Doubters may challenge this, but it truly "sounds like my bass, but louder."

joel kelsey · #13 09-12-2006, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mburd

I can't imagine a better amplified sound is possible for me at this time. Doubters may challenge this, but it truly "sounds like my bass, but louder."

I agree.

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #14 09-12-2006, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the MBURDSMAN

Perpendicularity....

Seriously, your points are very well taken. Piezo elements require pressure to function properly, and one of the big advancements that the realist made over older pickups like the BP 100 and underwood is that the element was in a place where less variation of pressure was likely than with older designs (and some newer ones: look at all of the wildly varying comments about the Rev. Solo pickup due to the quality of the fit). OTOH, the tilt of the bridge is the one way the there could be pressure variation, and your suggestion of paying closer attention to this detail is an excellent one.

I think this is why I like the Full Circle so much: it always sounds the same, because it always has the same fit. The sound isn't perfect, but it's VERY consistent, and I can live with that. If I had thought of the above, I might have liked my old realist better.

Andy Allen · #15 09-12-2006, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mburd

..if that's a word..
With my last string change, the bridge's fore-aft-lean-osity shifted just enough to impact the pressure pattern of the bridge foot on my Realist. The result was a marked decrease in volume and sustain on the E; acoustically as well as electrically. Tipping the bridge just *very* slightly completely restored the integrity of the sound. This experience may also speak to how much new strings, in this case Spiro Solos, can initially stretch, and the importance of a square fit. Next time maybe I'll allow for some settling time between each string.
I can't imagine a better amplified sound is possible for me at this time. Doubters may challenge this, but it truly "sounds like my bass, but louder."

I had exactly this problem earlier this year and posted about it here.
With the Realist fitted to my new bass it definitely makes the bridge foot sit just a little crooked. At least I now know to watch for the bridge tilting forwards, even slightly.

Andy

fish slapper · #16 09-12-2006, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

I think this is why I like the Full Circle so much: it always sounds the same, because it always has the same fit. The sound isn't perfect, but it's VERY consistent, and I can live with that. If I had thought of the above, I might have liked my old realist better.

Although I like the tone of the FC a little bit better than the RS II it replaced, the big improvement is not having to compusively check the pick-up to see if its been bumped in transit. And like you say, confidence that the FC will sound the same day to day.

Alex Scott · #17 09-12-2006, 02:23 PM

I compulsively check and wiggle my bridge anyway. But at least I don't turn the amp on and off 100 times like I used to.