can you ever go back

[bass dan]

my question is if you have your nut and bridge slots widened to accomadate strings that are of bigger gauge than your bass is currently set up with, can you ever go back. for instance, if you decide to try gut strings and have your bridge and nut slots widened for those strings can you go back to steel string gauge without a problem or will you need a new nut and bridge?

[dvmweb]

Do a search, I think this was talked about before.

Something about super glue and sawdust.

Walt MI/USA

[toman]

Maybe instead of cutting the first nut, a better idea would be to just have two nuts with different size slots. Ditto for the bridge; just have a spare set, thoug the bridge probably isn't an issue.

[Steve Swan]

I play gut strings with a plain A and end up selling my own basses out from under myself fairly regularly. On the basses that I play I leave enough of the steel string diameter slot (maybe 20-25%) below the much larger diameter gut slots. It makes switiching back and forth pretty easy.

[Silversorcerer]

Yeah, this came up once that I know of. I think it came down to "two nuts is better than one" ....

[dbcandle]

Nut yes, bridge no.

For the nut, the "magic mixture" seems to be super-glue and baking-soda. The backing-soda a) makes the result white (not clear) and b) speeds-up drying.

Read-up on the super-glue trick - pay attention to "watery" vs. "gel" types. I can't remember which type people generally use.

Note: In thinking, maybe this could be used for bridges too, but I've not seen that discussed. Probably less of an issue, since some people don't even file a slot in their bridge (when they upgrade).

[1st Bass]

Why would you not want to use ebony dust, to match the nut?

[drurb]

Originally Posted by toman

Maybe instead of cutting the first nut, a better idea would be to just have two nuts with different size slots. Ditto for the bridge; just have a spare set, thoug the bridge probably isn't an issue.

...even better-- two basses!

[peterbright]

Originally Posted by drurb

...even better-- two basses!

This was my solution too.

[glivanos]

+1

Originally Posted by drurb

...even better-- two basses!

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by bass dan

my question is if you have your nut and bridge slots widened to accomadate strings that are of bigger gauge than your bass is currently set up with, can you ever go back. for instance, if you decide to try gut strings and have your bridge and nut slots widened for those strings can you go back to steel string gauge without a problem or will you need a new nut and bridge?

On one Bass of mine I put a set of Olivs one day and kept them for only a few weeks. To put them on from using Flexocors before I had to widen both the Bridge and Nut slots. When I put the Flex's back on, there was no problem.

I use a tapered rattail file for all my slot cutting. What I do is measure the string and then mark the file so I don't go any wider than needed. I also use a very careful and straight stroke with the file so I don't over widen the slot accidentally. If you need say .080" for the 'A' and you cut it sloppily with the file marked off at .080", you can easily cut it wider to .090-.100". Remember, .010" is the thickness of a Guitar String and cutting a Maple bridge, that is nothing to take off so be careful.

Most recently I put a set of EPs on another which are thicker coming from Flexocors and the slots were previously cut for Stark Flex's. I just went back to regular Flex's and again, no problemo.

One other Bass of mine went from Flexocors to regular Labella Guts. Then I put on some Eurosonic Orchestra lights right after. Again, no Problemo.

I think the key is cutting a good slot and cutting it just as wide as needed but no more. Also, the angle pull after-lengths to the Tailpiece and Pegbox should give enough tension to hold things in place. Strings have a way of gripping the wood under them in their own way.

If you think there is a problem with rattles, then for the bridge, re-cut the slots only a hair deeper to the thinner diameter needed and raise your bridge. Leave the wider slots as-is in case you want to go back. For the Nut, do the same but place a tiny shim under it that can be removed if you go back in forth between string types or make another Nut and switch as needed.

[dbcandle]

Originally Posted by 1st Bass

Why would you not want to use ebony dust, to match the nut?

Baking soda is what is typically used, but most of the tips here are somewhat "ad-hoc". The main case for baking-soda seems to be as an "accellerant" for drying the super-glue. If you use something besides baking soda, maybe you should use some super-glue accellerant so that it dries faster. I've never used it, but for people who use super-glue a lot, it is apparently pretty common.

[KrisH]

I've used the super glue/baking soda trick to thicken up pieces of bone for, say, guitar saddles, but was told that the compound would not stand up to the pressure generated by strings in a nut slot. So I have been experimenting with different kinds of two-part epoxy putty to get a strong filling compound that can still be filed. Most seem to break down after several retunings. Has anyone every actually used superglue/baking soda on a nut slot fill-in, and does the material hold up well under the pressure of the strings?

[Andrew McGregor]

Hmm, model airplane construction trickery comes in useful somewhere else…

Superglue with baking soda is rather brittle and crushes easily, so I doubt it'll hold up under string tension. Kicker (the usual name for CA accelerant) also makes the glue very brittle, so I'd avoid that.

Sawdust and CA, on the other hand, has much the same properties as the wood itself would have, if it were soaked in CA. So for a nut, ebony dust and medium CA would be a decent filler, and maple dust/CA for a bridge. I say medium CA, because the thin stuff has no working time, and the thinnest tends to set sawdust on fire when it sets (with an audible click and a curl of smoke!). The thickest grades of CA are going to be just about impossible to mix anything with. Unfortunately, the manufacturers can't agree on what constitutes thin, medium or thick; you're after a CA that is NOT recommended for wicking applications, because wicking CA has zero working time on wood. That might be called medium or thick.

The grade I'd use for this is 'Flash' brand medium CA, which any model aircraft supplier should have: http://stevensaero.com/shop/product.php?productid=17058

Oh, flexible CA is something different again, and not suitable for this job.

Another option would be to use thin casting or moulding epoxy and sawdust. The advantage there is much longer working time, but somehow you will have to contain the stuff so it doesn't run out of the slots before it sets. Epoxy doesn't stick to polyethylene, so the clear packaging material you get on any number of things these days will work as a dam. West systems or Epiglass casting epoxy would be the stuff to use there. That's the resin used for 'graphite' bows and bass guitar parts, it's completely indestructible.

[Silversorcerer]

All the glue + dust or power sounds like more trouble to me than Ken's approach or just cutting two nuts and using a very dilute and easy to undo hide glue solution to hold them on. Hide glue is so easy to reverse if you dilute it, and cutting a 2nd nut requires a little time, but no experimentation. From what Ken describes though, it sounds like it might not be a problem needing either solution;- no problemo.

[MT Spaces]

Originally Posted by Steve Swan

I play gut strings with a plain A and end up selling my own basses out from under myself fairly regularly. On the basses that I play I leave enough of the steel string diameter slot (maybe 20-25%) below the much larger diameter gut slots. It makes switiching back and forth pretty easy.

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

... I use a tapered rattail file for all my slot cutting. What I do is measure the string and then mark the file so I don't go any wider than needed. I also use a very careful and straight stroke with the file so I don't over widen the slot accidentally.

I think the key is cutting a good slot and cutting it just as wide as needed but no more. Also, the angle pull after-lengths to the Tailpiece and Pegbox should give enough tension to hold things in place. Strings have a way of gripping the wood under them in their own way ....

Thanks a lot for that timely and sage advice Steve & Ken . This weekend I will attempt to install a Gamut Plain A gut in place of my Garbo A on my '40 Kay. With your comments here, I am feeling more comfortable about being able to go back to the Garbo if I want to. I micced the gut string at 0.145" and will see if I can get a 9/64" non-tapered round file at the hardware store so I can leave some of the 0.097" Garbo slots underneath the bigger gut slots. Thanks again for the info.