Considering the possibility of starting a build...odds-n-ends questions

[Basschair]

Hi all,

I've got a lot of do-it-yourself woodworking experience, so though I'm no beginner per se, I may not know/understand some formal terminology.

If you would indulge me for a moment...think back to your first bass build. Did you mainly rely on books, internet advice, and you own intuition/experience, or did you have anyone you were able to meet with from time to time to get pointers, advice, recommendations, etc.?

I ask because I have two professional bass luthiers, two professional bass setup guys, a couple hobbyists, and some wood/tool guys in my area and I've worked with them all at various points. The two luthiers both have experience with builds and major repair work, and I'd trust either of them with my Wilfer. Still, I'd like to be able to say that I built my bass, not that I watched someone else build it for me.

So, how much help did you get from others in person?

[1st Bass]

I got:

• significant encouragement and suggestions from Talkbass experts,

• specific help and explanations from Peter Chandler, over the phone (never was privileged to meet him...) and

• zero help in person, except when I borrowed a friend's 8" jointer, and he helped me use it.

But I have only built one bass and am not to be mistaken for a real bass-maker/luthier. I was working from Peter Chandler's book.

Chet Bishop

[Basschair]

Hey Chet,

What were you running through the jointer that required the 8 inch cutter?

I've got a jointer in the garage, but believe it's 4" or 6"

Paul

[1st Bass]

Nothing required an 8" jointer...I did not have a jointer at all, and was having trouble with the center joints on both plates. His just happened to be an 8" model. It did help, having two sets of hands on those big pieces, to stabilize, etc. Besides, he is a lot better woodworker than I, so it was nice to have his guidance.

My son now has a jointer, so I may use it next time.

[Don Harris]

There is a local luthier's group that meets a couple times a month that has helped me visualize doing certain processes even though they were all working on violins. Like chiseling out the neck mortice, trimming linings, gouging the rough arch, mitering the purfling, etc. For me, seeing someone using the tools well was worth a lot. I would have wasted a lot more time figuring things out without it.

(repeating myself from the pm: ) So You Want To Make A Double Bass, Art of Violin Making, Matthew's site, TalkBass archives, Maestronet.com (pegbox) were all helpful.

[Basschair]

I guess the only tool I'm a bit concerned about is my bandsaw. It's a measly 12" that I've used for bow wood and some electric bass neck material. I'm hoping to not have to do any major resawing, but I just don't know the procedures involved and if it would/will be required.

Perhaps some examples on pieces you all needed to work a your bandsaw which required the most clearance (vertical as well as horizontal)?

[Matthew Tucker]

for bass #1 you don't even need a bandsaw. getting one with a 13" throat is all very well but you need a mother of a blade to resaw that width. If you have a 14" bandsaw with a 9" - 10" throat that's enough to cut rib wood. enough I'd say. and even then, are you really going to resaw your own rib wood? I only costs a few bucks to have it done by a professional workshop. That's not cheating.

I don't think you need a bandsaw at all in fact. It does make some work easier (cutting braces to size) but its not indispensable.

advice and help? You should, and will be able to, get help from anyone who is not a competitor

[Basschair]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

for bass #1 you don't even need a bandsaw. getting one with a 12 throat is all very well but you need a mother of a blade to resaw that width. If you have a 9" throat that's enough to cut rib wood. enough I'd say.

Sweet: so most likely I'd be using it to cut the rib wood, not requiring major clearance.

[ctregan]

I have been using Matthews Double Bass Making pages and Osnes Cello #46 web site. Both are very informative and entertaining.

You will need some friends in the lumber business to help you find some decent wood.

It takes a lot of time, especially the first bass.

[Basschair]

Originally Posted by ctregan

I have been using Matthews Double Bass Making pages and Osnes Cello #46 web site. Both are very informative and entertaining.

You will need some friends in the lumber business to help you find some decent wood.

It takes a lot of time, especially the first bass.

Matthew's DB Making page was the first I bookmarked (well, okay, second after this TB thread ), but hadn't heard of the Cello site: I'll have to check it out.

I know a guy or two in the business, plus some others who have good connections. Still, any recommendations you all want to give would be great. I've got some of the online ones covered (Gilmer, amwoodinc, Orcas Island) plus some others from when I was collecting wood for electric basses and for bow sticks. It's a decent network, but I won't take anything for granted.

Yeah, I've been going through past threads and reading the reminisces of others about just how long it took them. I'm not even going to try to put a projected timeline together. I'll take my time and just go with it. Thanks for keeping me routed in reality

[Matthew Tucker]

Originally Posted by Basschair

Sweet: so most likely I'd be using it to cut the rib wood, not requiring major clearance.

well, even that's not easy. to resaw 9" of wood thinly you'll need a wide blade and about 1 tooth per inch, a good solid fence system and a bandsaw correctly set up with no drift.

I'd say you'll be more likely using your bandsaw for cutting your braces to size and trimming your bridge and maybe your plate outlines. Rough Neck profile certainly.

[Bob Branstetter]

I've been using bandsaws for at least 45 years, but I didn't really learn how to properly setup and use one until I read a book titled simply The Bandsaw Book by Lonnie Bird. There are lots of tricks that can make the job of resawing wood easier and more accurate. I highly recommend this book.

[Basschair]

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

well, even that's not easy. to resaw 9" of wood thinly you'll need a wide blade and about 1 tooth per inch, a good solid fence system and a bandsaw correctly set up with no drift.

I'd say you'll be more likely using your bandsaw for cutting your braces to size and trimming your bridge and maybe your plate outlines. Rough Neck profile certainly.

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

I've been using bandsaws for at least 45 years, but I didn't really learn how to properly setup and use one until I read a book titled simply The Bandsaw Book by Lonnie Bird. There are lots of tricks that can make the job of resawing wood easier and more accurate. I highly recommend this book.

Nice: I'll be looking for the book and doing some tuning on the bandsaw. It's a decent model with a decent fence, but it will take some time to get it up to snuff. If it isn't possible, there's a guy in town with a much nicer saw...

Thanks guys

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

I've been using bandsaws for at least 45 years, but I didn't really learn how to properly setup and use one until I read a book titled simply The Bandsaw Book by Lonnie Bird. There are lots of tricks that can make the job of resawing wood easier and more accurate. I highly recommend this book.

Ooh thanks for that.

[Basschair]

I'd be interested in following the "Chandler Special" plans, but it (and the Lott plans) isn't discussed in the book. Will this be a big handicap? My book is on order, so I imagine I'll have some idea about this next week when it arrives. I guess I'm wondering if the discussions in the book for each design include specifics exclusive to the designs, and if there's a possibility that the Chandler Special is unique in a way that will make it overly difficult to tackle for a first build without discussions/descriptions in the book.

[Don Harris]

I think the book would pretty much cover everything for any of his sets of plans. He covers flat backs and carved backs in the book. He doesn't really discuss D verses Eb necks though from what I remember.

[Matthew Tucker]

There's lots he doesn't cover in detail, like making the mould or carving the arches. But with common sense and a lot of reflection you can fill in the gaps. The book is not specific to any one model of bass.

[Basschair]

Excellent. The models are all of beautiful basses, but I like the narrower shoulders on the "Special."

[Ken McKay]

I had only the Wake book in the late 80's when I made my first bass. It was actually pretty nice to have a reference that provided me with a home spun amateur approach to getting it done. I called a few established makers at the time, no internet yet, and picked a few brains. Some were helpful and some aloof or just busy, I suppose, others offended, oh well. I first decided to make some violins because I got the advice that the actual skills are the same, purfling is purfling, and scrolls are scrolls, sharp is sharp etc. And this I still believe is true. In fact most basses made by amateurs or even profession bass bakers who have not made a lot of instruments could be criticized for some little thing or the other...edge work for example.

There are no rules. I say follow your own path and avoid too much analysis, as in analysis paralysis. There is so much information out there now that it is a matter of sifting through it and making a plan. Don't worry about band saws and such, you probably could find a local cabinet shop to do any milling necessary to bring your stock to the point that you can use it in your shop. Or you could do what Matthew did and use sharp hand tools for planing the sides and back.

The finished instrument could look smooth, sanded and modern or with some tool marks and scraped. Either way the sound of it will depend on your design, arching, graduation, scale length, wood selection regardless of how good is your woodworking. You will get a good instrument if it plays well in the end and no one will be able to criticize it enough to overcome the shear pleasure of playing your own instrument.

If you need any specific advice we are here to help.

[james condino]

You really don't need to worry about any large power tools. For the three or four times a year that I need to resaw a 20" spruce billet or face join an 18" wide maple billet, I go visit a local furniture builder or cabinet shop. Most of them charge approximately $50 -$75 per hour.

In about an hour and a half's time, I can resaw and join both plates, resaw and thickness sand the ribs and linings, and do a few other miscelaneous tasks using their $15k bandsaw, $6k jointer, and $15K Italian widebelt sander, all for less that $150 and I don't need a huge barn or warehouse to store them in for the other 363 days of the year.

If you find the right folks, they'll do the same thing for a case of beer on a Saturday ( I don't reccommend drinking it around the power tools!). If it is somone I've just met, I'll either buy the shop time or I may offer a trade- a couple of hours use of the tools and I'll help them out for the rest of the day. Everyone who owns a nice production shop is always slammed with work and they like the help. Most folks always want something free from them and never offer something back in return.

The other thing to remember is that all of those beautiful eye candy historic basses that we all lust after were cut with simple hand tools....some days it is faster and more fun to grab a friend and cut it with my seven foot crosscut saw....

j.
www.condino.com