Cracked top ..

simonwilmer · #1 05-10-2008, 08:39 PM

Hello everyone ,I have been lurking for a fair while and have found TalkBASS to be extremely helpfull and a great source of knowledge and good advice . This brings me to my request for advice ,I found a Chinese Hofner Hybrid that suffered a bad fall face down onto a hard floor ,bridge first cracking the top, I have not got the bass as yet but the crack is parallel to the bass side of the bridge along the outer side of the bass bar . The back is lifting also ,so I am thinking maybe taking the back of and fixing it this way ,would it be better to take the top off ? Im wondering if it would make clamping the crack and the bass bar easier as the bass bar is partially lifting ,Ill try to post a pic , thanks for listening ,Regards Simon.

salcott · #2 05-10-2008, 08:57 PM

Unless you're a highly trained and experienced luthier, I'd suggest you not try to fix this yourself.

Kevin Hsieh · #3 05-10-2008, 09:02 PM

i have a similar crack on my own bass. please get an experience luthier to do this. this is a tough injury to fix right.

simonwilmer · #4 05-11-2008, 12:26 AM

Thanks for your concern ,I know you mean well ,what I was hoping to find out is ,as the back is almost off can I repair the top successfully thru the back of the instrument ,one of the reasons I bought this bass was so I could gain more experience ,this is how I have learned everything I do ,when I bought my first bass ,within weeks the fingerboard came loose . If I hadnt a clue it would still be loose ,I built my first electric guitar 26 yrs ago ,my dad used to repair his Sax's on the kitchen table ...Im sure many others can relate to this . oh yeah I have ordered Chuck Treagers book , but I was hoping for some more insight till then ...still am ...

KSB - Ken Smith · #5 05-11-2008, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simonwilmer

Thanks for your concern ,I know you mean well ,what I was hoping to find out is ,as the back is almost off can I repair the top successfully thru the back of the instrument ,one of the reasons I bought this bass was so I could gain more experience ,this is how I have learned everything I do ,when I bought my first bass ,within weeks the fingerboard came loose . If I hadnt a clue it would still be loose ,I built my first electric guitar 26 yrs ago ,my dad used to repair his Sax's on the kitchen table ...Im sure many others can relate to this . oh yeah I have ordered Chuck Treagers book , but I was hoping for some more insight till then ...still am ...

To do a Top with such severe damage as shown it must come off. That doesn't mean the Back itself doesn't need work but you haven't show us the Back damage yet either.

The old Bass Bar has to be carefully removed and the Top prepped for a new Bar. Definitely not a job for a guitar or sax repair person. This is one of the most difficult jobs to do. I worked on Basses back in the '70s and '80s as a hobby business in my free time what I was a professional player. I did only one Bassbar job and it was not easy in the least.

To get the job done correctly this must be done with the Top off. Taking the Top off is way way more easy to do than take the Back off and back on again.

Here's the other factor and I personally just experienced this with 2 Basses from my own stock this year. One Bass was in a 3-bass fall from a rack and the Top split down the Bassbar from teh Top edge about 18" long. The other Bass split in two places with 2 cracks at the bottom by the 'Bar and one on the Treble F-Hole wing to the bottom. This was from that severe weather swing we had a few months ago. Spring weather and then cold, the heat in the building kicks on suddenly and the humidifiers could not help. This particular Bass was also in a trunk in the waiting room area of my shop.

These are both newly made Basses, high end models and woods and made in China. These Basses are 5-6k instruments that need repairs costing 3-4k each. On a new instrument, well repaired Bassbar and large Top cracks even done by a professional with de-value the Bass about 40-50%.

In other words, the average buyer would only want to pay about 50-60% of the full cost of the Bass even though it was repaired correctly!

Big ugly well repaired cracks on a brand new Bass of that price range in the end will have a negative value in the end.

Luckily, both of my Basses (along with 2 other damaged differently in that first 3-bass fall) are covered by my business insurance policy minus my deductible. In my case, the insurance company may just pay out the replacement values for each of the Basses being they are at a negative value and then sell the Bass possibly as-is as salvage.

In your case at best the repair cost will be the re-sale value of your Bass. A 5-6k new Bass with a 'professionally' repaired Bassbar crack might sell for $2000-$3600 depending on the Bass, the outcome of the repair, the buyer and whatever other variances you can think of.

Now, if you try this yourself and do it correctly at best, expect to keep the Bass as it will be very difficult to sell afterwards.

simonwilmer · #6 05-11-2008, 02:31 AM

Thankyou very much Mr Smith ..your advice and experience is respected and appreciated ,I have found out that this model retails here in Aus for around $2000.00 AUD ,this is not including setup, the bass was bought new and setup at The Bass Shop in Sydney so it cost around $3000 in 2001 , I feel it was a good buy at a sixth of that on ebay . I want to keep this bass ,so there is no great hurry to fix her , Im glad to have found out the best way is to remove the top ...heres a pic of the back ,thanks again .ps pics provided by seller ,much prettier hands than mine .

**Matthew Tucker** · #7 05-11-2008, 05:52 AM

Before you take either the back or the front off yourself, give a thought as to how you are going to clamp the crack back together perfectly, how you are going to cleat the crack if it runs next to the bassbar (looks like it does at the lower end, and that will need special attention), and how you are going to clamp the top back onto the ribs. You'll need a lot of bass-size spool clamps, bar clamps and hide glue. And probably a new bass bar.

If you do take the top off, be prepared to find other damage that may not be visible from outside!

1st Bass · #8 05-11-2008, 09:42 AM

Another way to look at this is to see the potential cost as tuition...you have all essentially assured him that it will cost more than his bass is worth to have a luthier repair it, but will likely ruin it if he attempts it himself. Why throw good money after bad?

Count this as what it costs to learn the game, Simon. I believe you can probably do it, and do a pretty creditable job, if you take it slowly and carefully, and make each step perfect before moving on. And if it is "ruined", well then you haven't lost anything, have you? You have paid tuition and gained experience.

Chet

**Matthew Tucker** · #9 05-11-2008, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1st Bass

will likely ruin it if he attempts it himself

Well, maybe not; its already "ruined" in a sense and can only get better. However to succeed, one needs more than a couple of F clamps and Traeger's book!

Time to start collecting clamps, I'd say ... good luck with the project!

simonwilmer · #10 05-11-2008, 05:30 PM

Thanks First Bass and Mathew ,(your pages have been a great help to me and I dig your attitude and approach) ..I have been thinking about how to cleat and clamp the crack as it runs beside and under the bassbar , so yeah good to hear that point , and I have started to collect threaded rod to get my spool clamps together , also good to have learned what they are called called thanks again . and its all about learning and gaining some more insight and experience ,it is ruined now and pretty much useless ,I believe and have confidence that I can make it playable again with patience and common sense ,and a passion for the instrument goes without saying ...thanks again .

jimmyduded · #11 05-14-2008, 03:11 PM

in my experience(watched my boss do the same type of repair) it takes alot of time, if you have time, patience and a bit of experience id assume really you can do whatever you want in life, i have found this process very helpful, when you get frustrated or dont know how to go about approaching a repair or something, take a break, get a snack or a drink, maybe make some shavings on a piece of scrap wood, then come back to it with a relaxed mind and a fresh outlook, i guarentee if you go through this process a few times then by the time your ready to do the repair you will have the patience and will have thought about it long and hard, just my two cents

simonwilmer · #12 05-22-2008, 04:29 AM

Thanks Jimmy ,I know what your saying ...got the Hof today ,and just removed the back , and it was a revelation of sorts to see how this bass was constructed , first the ply lower bout linings made be a little sad then the neck joint kinda took my breath away ....actually the first thing I noticed was the Chinese newsprint left behind the ff's ...anyway Im wondering if its worth putting back together , I couldnt live with leaving that neck joint ....think about it more tomorrow

**Matthew Tucker** · #13 05-22-2008, 06:06 AM

I don't like the look of that epoxy much either.

Well, here's your chance to do your first top block replacement! The hardest part will be making that first cut ...

1st Bass · #14 05-22-2008, 07:29 AM

Well...yeah. That's a pretty sad case.

BUT! You can take one repair/rework project at a time, and learn even more than you had planned. New neck-block, new neck-set, bass-bar removal, crack repair, new bassbar installation and tuning, and the list goes on.

Considering what the bass really is, the rules of restoration/conservation need not apply if you choose not to heed them (hence, carving a new top, completely rebuilding the bass, including re-finishing, are all live options); OR, you may choose to make believe it is a priceless old heirloom bass, and try to treat it as such, heeding ALL rules of conservative lutherie. You can learn a lot that way, too.

Your call. But if it were mine, I would definitely press on and repair the bass. It is a big job, for a first go, but I believe you can do it. And what an education you will provide for yourself. :-)

Chet Bishop

simonwilmer · #15 02-16-2009, 02:11 AM

After a long break I managed to find the time to finish fixing the Bassbar crack in the top of the Cheap Chinese Hofner I bought last year . A new Bassbar was purchased and the new bar turned out to be a bit wider than the original bar ,I used this extra width to cover the lower end of the crack some,along with mortising some of the lower cleats into the bassbar , Im pretty confident this repair will hold , I have a bit more work to do to the bass , new linings to bend up , new neck/end blocks , I dont like the neck much so I think Ill make one , needs a new finger board also .

simonwilmer · #16 02-16-2009, 02:19 AM

nother pic

1st Bass · #17 02-16-2009, 11:08 AM

I'm assuming you will be planing the bar to more or less normal dimensions? The blank was sent to you way oversized, with the intent that you would resaw and/or plane it to correct dimensions. It will be tough to do in situ but I guess it could be done.

simonwilmer · #18 02-17-2009, 01:20 AM

Yes ,like this in fact .....,Like I mentioned , I kept the mating face of the bar wider because It covered a good third of the crack ,Maybe this is wrong , its the British Army genes , mek sure ya mek it strong lad .
its not finished at this point , the tapping advice is coming into play ,thanks again.

1st Bass · #19 02-17-2009, 05:06 PM

Well...I guess I haven't the right genes. (In fact it has been suggested that I may have sneaked into the gene-pool while the lifeguard wasn't looking, but I maintain that is entirely apocryphal, not to mention pseudipigraphal. "Untrue, evennn," to quote Snagglepuss.)

I just think it looks a tad too stout. Mebbe more'n a tad.

Chet

Jake deVilliers · #20 02-17-2009, 05:59 PM

Hey Simon, I'm sorry to pile on, but you should really take that bassbar blank off the top and skinny it up, carve it down and maybe even tune it before you put it back on.

Its a little more work but it will help your bass sound better every day for the rest of its life.