Cross (X) string tuning

[sonix]

Hello,

I replaced my end pin yesterday and my E + A strings. This is the first time I completely detuned my instrument, so getting it back into tune was a challenge.

The challenge was in how I could wind up the strings in the scroll without having overlap. The thing is, the hole for the string was always to the side of where the string would fit on the nut. So if I wound the string on the side of the groove for it, I wouldn't have enough space to wind all of the string for me to get the string in tune. I didn't want to cut excess strings either.

This is what I did, I wound up my string to the side opposite where the nut groove would be, and let it drop diagonally to the nut, and straight down to the bridge and tail piece. None of the strings touch each other, neither is there any overlap in the winding, just a criss-cross arrangement of my four strings in the scroll.

I know that this approach is not what most people go for, but can anyone come up with a good reason why I shouldn't do this? What I thought about were two things that I should consider. The first, is what will happen to the sound wave vibrating on the string, and the second is what would happen when I tune up every day. It actually should be easier to tune the strings this way, because, as any good physics student would tell you, only the horizontal component of the string 'vector' would be what would under tension (think if its easier to pull a heavy box with a rope perpendicular to the ground, or at an angle). So what will happen to the vibrating wave? Nothing bad. Less energy should be able to make it pass the nut, which means that my strings should actually be louder now (think of attaching a rope to a wooden or brick wall and how much of pulse wave would be reflected back to you depending on the material of the wall or the tension attaching the rope).


danke.

[toman]

I think I get the gist of what you're saying, so here's what I do: I eyball the angle between the hole and the slot. Then I pull the string far enough through the hole that when wound, it'll have enough winds to get a straight shot from the shaft to the slot. I wind the string over the spare end along the length of the shaft and tuck anything that's left out of the way. If I'm going to have the strings on for a long time or if they buzz or something, I trim off most of the excess. Make sense?

I'd post a photo but my bass is in for some long-term repairs. Also, I run my E up to the top shaft, just because it makes more sense to me not to have such a harsh break over the nut with such a fat string.

[robobass]

I was taught to slide the string end through the hole, decide how much slack you needed to get the proper # of turns, and then twist the end around the part of the silk on the other side of the hole and hold it together while bringing up the tension. This way you avoid any possibility of slippage, as well as solving the other problems.

As far as your vector tension theory, I really think you have it backwards. The greater the angle at the nut, the more tension between the nut and tuner. Ever notice how when you encounter a tuner doesn't work well it tends to be the "E", where the break angle is greatest?

It shouldn't make much difference in the end, but make sure your nut grooves are open enough on the backside to prevent string damage.

Robobass

[arnoldschnitzer]

Originally Posted by robobass

I was taught to slide the string end through the hole, decide how much slack you needed to get the proper # of turns, and then twist the end around the part of the silk on the other side of the hole and hold it together while bringing up the tension. Robobass

This drives luthiers like me crazy. I call it the #%$@^(* twist. Re-stringing becomes an absolute chore because you have to unwind the entire length of the twisted part to get the string loose from the shaft. I recommend two turns around the shaft, then put the tail end through the hole and lock it between the last two windings.

[sonix]

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

I recommend two turns around the shaft, then put the tail end through the hole and lock it between the last two windings.

So, the tail end is under the rest of the windings? Could you post a picture, or a diagram?

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by robobass

I was taught to slide the string end through the hole, decide how much slack you needed to get the proper # of turns, and then twist the end around the part of the silk on the other side of the hole and hold it together while bringing up the tension. This way you avoid any possibility of slippage, as well as solving the other problems.

I don't have a problem with Rob's method. Most of the luthiers I know use an electric screwdriver to unwind the strings now, so it really doesn't take that much longer to remove them. I use the twist method on my personal bass and I've never had a string slip after tuning it up. That's more important to me than the ease of removing them later. YMMV

[Matthew Tucker]

I measure one handspan past the peg then snip off the surplus. That gives me about 4-5 turns. Using a pair of pliers I bend back the last 1cm of string, and I insert the doubled-over end in the hole. It holds quite nicely. then just wind up the string, being careful about where the string angle ends up.

[Damon Rondeau]

I do almost the same as Matthew, except I don't put in a doubled-over end. I just bend the end of the string into an "L" shape and stick the end in there. I have to hold the string while I get a wrap around the post. It holds fine. The important thing, to me, is that the string winds neatly around the peg.

[arnoldschnitzer]

Originally Posted by Bob Branstetter

I don't have a problem with Rob's method. Most of the luthiers I know use an electric screwdriver to unwind the strings now, so it really doesn't take that much longer to remove them. I use the twist method on my personal bass and I've never had a string slip after tuning it up. That's more important to me than the ease of removing them later. YMMV

Bob, I guess I'm old-fashioned. I don't like the electric winders (too scary around a fine instrument), and I like the string winding around the shaft to look pretty.

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

Bob, I guess I'm old-fashioned. I don't like the electric winders (too scary around a fine instrument), and I like the string winding around the shaft to look pretty.

You may change your mind once you get past "approaching" Geezer.

[robobass]

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

Bob, I guess I'm old-fashioned. I don't like the electric winders (too scary around a fine instrument), and I like the string winding around the shaft to look pretty.

I made my string winder out of a champagne cork. A shaft comes out of one end and fits into a light duty cordless drill. I set the clutch on low, and figure the cork would come apart before the torque got high enough to any damage. My basses aren't super valuable, so a cork from a bottle of Veuve Clicquot Ponsardin is good enough for me. Since Arnold works on so many high end basses, he shouldn't use anything less than Dom Perignon

Robobass

[Bob Branstetter]

Originally Posted by robobass

I made my string winder out of a champagne cork. A shaft comes out of one end and fits into a light duty cordless drill. I set the clutch on low, and figure the cork would come apart before the torque got high enough to any damage.
Robobass

This is another one of those things that requires a little common sense. A small cordless drill or battery powered screwdriver with an adjustable torque mechanism is a must. I use a string winder that was made for me many years ago by David Wilson (co-owner of Hammond Ashley Associates) out of very hard industrial nylon. I've used it for at least 20 years and have never damaged any bass or the machines on them. I know of at least 10 major shops in the US that regularly use similar devices. I'm sure there are a lot more smaller shops using them too.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Is it really that important if you only change strings on occassion how easy they are to get off?



A few examples of my Stringing and I never had any problems tuning or changing strings. Work is work and I hate any kind of string winder. If I had 3 or 4 hands then maybe that would be ok but it's hard enough with two hands without a winder to control from hitting the Scroll.

Bigger Basses are easier as they need less wraps unless you cut some of the silked excess off at the end on shorter Basses. The problem with that is that the cut strings may not fit a longer Bass if you start swapping strings around which I do on occasion.