DB to Violone Conversion

[Dr Rod]

Does anybody know how to convert a double bass into a Violone?

I guess one would need two more string pegs, perhaps they could be fitted to the tailpiece with two holes in the scroll/pegbox to run the strings through.

Wider fingerboard?
bridge?
nut?


I have an old plywood that I am not using at the moment. I recently heard a recording of a period instrument orchestra and the violone sounded massive. The low C's were earthshaking.

[reedo35]

It would probably need a new neck to match the wider fingerboard, and also some gut frets- here is a picture-

[bejoyous]

You could save yourself a whole lot of money and frustration (to learn a new fingering) by just putting on some gut strings and put the recording microphone inside the instrument.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by bejoyous

You could save yourself a whole lot of money and frustration (to learn a new fingering) by just putting on some gut strings and put the recording microphone inside the instrument.

I was actually looking forward to learning the new instrument (with it's fingerings and all), somehow I don't think of it as a frustrating task, more like a challenge.
The violone is not just a bass with gut strings, it is a 6 string instrument that has a bass range and also a cello range. It had both functions. This means that you have a vast and very beautiful solo repertoire, as well as all the fun bass/continuo stuff.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by reedo35

here is a picture-

Thanks for the picture.

Do you know how big this particular violone is?

[bassteban]

Originally Posted by Dr Rod

The violone is not just a bass with gut strings, it is a 6 string instrument that has a bass range and also a cello range. It had both functions.

It's an....

E-R-D-B!

[bejoyous]

Check out this link:
http://www.mdw.ac.at/I105/orpheon/Se.../playmate1.htm

There a good photo so you can see how large a violone is. Also, check out the links at the bottom of the page.

[bejoyous]

Hey Rod;

Here are some plans for a Bass Viola de Gamba. They might have plans for a Violone, too. Perhaps Peter Chandler could build one for you.
http://www.mdw.ac.at/I105/orpheon/Se...dgbAlbanus.htm

[Dr Rod]

Many thanks indeed Bejoyous !

[COUNT ZACULA]

isnt the neck overstand shallower on a violone?

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by COUNT ZACULA

isnt the neck overstand shallower on a violone?

I think so, and it seems the angle is much less pronounced too.

[Ashley Long]

Also, there should be no bass bar on a violone which gives a better breathing texture to the sound. Violone is a erroneous term, it means no one thing. Violone have anything from four to 6 strings and various tunings for various period and styles though the most common is the (for six string) DAECGD.
The best thing to do probably in my opinion, is just to get some old viola da gamba strings for frets (see here http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/fretknot.htm) , get a normal set of gut strings and tune in Baroque tuning (GDAD) which will give the extra resonance.
Also, bow weights and contours vary from period to period but I presume you are a german-style player so that shouldn't be a problem.

Hope this helps! Paradoxically, perhaps period performance is the way forward.......

[Dr Rod]

Thanks for your valuable info Ashley, it will be very helpful.

Have you ever heard the Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin?

http://www.akamus.de/start.htm

I heard them on the radio a few weeks ago playing the Bach Brandenburg concertos. The Violone sounded so beautiful and with a VERY FULL low end....I was amazed, I didn't know period instruments could sound so organ-like all the way down to the low C. Usually Violone performers are very unsatisfying. From now on I won't blame it on the instruments !

Originally Posted by Ashley Long

Violone is a erroneous term

If composers used the term so widely, how can it be erroneous?
Vague perhaps.

[Ashley Long]

Erroneous in the sense that often it refers to no instrument in specific, just any available bass continuo instrument plus, as I said, violone were not standardised.

[Mudfuzz]

Check these guys out!

[continuo77]

Just to throw in my 2 cents...
Someone mentioned the "violone" as having no bass bar... Most all instruments of the viol family had bass bars carved into the top table (not a seperate glued on piece). The sound post is something that wasn't standardized until the violin family started gaining popularity.
I think it's important to point out (and someone started to) that "violone" doesn't just refer to the 6 string instrument that plays at 8 ft pitch (octave as written) but can be an instrument that doubles plays at 16 ft pitch (octave below written notation) and also could have anywhere from 3- 6 strings of various tunings.
Also, contrabass instruments of both the viol and the new violin family were often fretted in the neck position up until c.1800. I have a small 5/8 size flatback bass that has the original neck angle, carved in bass bar, 6 frets and has been refered to as both "violone" and contrabass.
Instead of doing an overhaul on a modern instrument it might be more important to get your hands on a good baroque bow and gut strings and go for that resonant, whispy sound that most period string players go for.
Oh yeah--- there is also plenty of evidence for overhand (french style) playing in the 17th and 18th centuries. It doesn't have to be underhand and it doesn't differentiate if you are playing a double bass or a violone or a bass giege or a violono grosso or whatever you want to call it.
It's all bass
Cheers

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by continuo77

Just to throw in my 2 cents...
Someone mentioned the "violone" as having no bass bar... Most all instruments of the viol family had bass bars carved into the top table (not a seperate glued on piece). The sound post is something that wasn't standardized until the violin family started gaining popularity.
I think it's important to point out (and someone started to) that "violone" doesn't just refer to the 6 string instrument that plays at 8 ft pitch (octave as written) but can be an instrument that doubles plays at 16 ft pitch (octave below written notation) and also could have anywhere from 3- 6 strings of various tunings.
Also, contrabass instruments of both the viol and the new violin family were often fretted in the neck position up until c.1800. I have a small 5/8 size flatback bass that has the original neck angle, carved in bass bar, 6 frets and has been refered to as both "violone" and contrabass.
Instead of doing an overhaul on a modern instrument it might be more important to get your hands on a good baroque bow and gut strings and go for that resonant, whispy sound that most period string players go for.
Oh yeah--- there is also plenty of evidence for overhand (french style) playing in the 17th and 18th centuries. It doesn't have to be underhand and it doesn't differentiate if you are playing a double bass or a violone or a bass giege or a violono grosso or whatever you want to call it.
It's all bass
Cheers

Thanks for your input.

I have always felt that the period performance scene lacked the flexibility and common sence that your post just displayed.

Just think about this, in a Europe where you had a different language every 50 miles, how could anyone expect a standard, or a true period performance?
I laugh when people want to tune at exactly 438 as if the whole of Europe had had digital tuners. We don't even have a standard today ! (440 in America, 443 in Germany, 445 in Vienna etc...)

Thanks again for the info

[COUNT ZACULA]

Originally Posted by Dr Rod

Thanks for your input.

I have always felt that the period performance scene lacked the flexibility and common sence that your post just displayed.

Just think about this, in a Europe where you had a different language every 50 miles, how could anyone expect a standard, or a true period performance?
I laugh when people want to tune at exactly 438 as if the whole of Europe had had digital tuners. We don't even have a standard today ! (440 in America, 443 in Germany, 445 in Vienna etc...)

Thanks again for the info

Theres a very interesting book that touches on this subject called "The Story of A" In the book it talks about how the various tunings around Europe tended to match that of the local pipe organ. Which was sometimes as low as 415!

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by COUNT ZACULA

Theres a very interesting book that touches on this subject called "The Story of A" In the book it talks about how the various tunings around Europe tended to match that of the local pipe organ. Which was sometimes as low as 415!

Or sometimes as high as 450 !

The way you tune organs is by filing the actual pipe. Which means that over time pipes get smaller and therefore higher in pitch. Churches used to do this until the pitch was so high that the singers and instrumentalists could not adjust anymore and then they would order a new low pipe for each register and move up the other pipes. Then the organ would become extremely low again.