Diggin' In: Do You Remove the Rubber Endpin Tip for Gigs?

bonaventura · #1 02-18-2009, 11:17 PM

When I had my new bass made, the luthier (Gruenert) told me I could increase the acoustic volume by removing the rubber tip off the endpin to get the floor vibrating with the bass. I guess it's pretty well known that you can add to your acoustic bass volume, depending on the room and the floor, by digging the metal point of your endpin into the stage, pit, or floor. Now I personally do this whenever permitted, i.e., no one is going to be bothered because the stage floor is already scarred and riddled with a thousand marks and gouges.

Another reason is that, if I sit while playing, the bass tends to slide forward and away from me on the flat rubber tip I've got. Taking it off ensures the bass will stay put.

I'd like to ask any jazz AND orchestra bassists, particularly those who play acoustically (by that i mean unamped), for comment:

Do you dig your metal endpin point into the floor sometimes? often? never? always?

Why do you do this or not do this?

If you have done this, what did you experience in terms of sound in the room?

What kind of endpin did you use this way -- steel, wooden, carbon fiber -- and do you think that affected the resulting sound? how?

Any other experiences with this?

Interested to hear your comments and experiences.

Bill

Ed Fuqua · #2 02-19-2009, 08:48 AM

Yeah, if there's a wood surface I can really plant the pin in, but I stand so the slipping issue isn't that great. There's only been a couple of times that I actually carved a hole to put the pin in.

I have a steel Goetz endpin, it does give me a boost in volume IF the floor/stage is resonant to some degree. If it's wood over concrete, it doesn't seem to matter if the crutch tip is on or not.

I've used it on carpet over wood stages (like Birdland or Sweet Rhythm) and you get a similar response, since there's one less insulating layer between you and a resonant surface.

joehaven · #3 02-19-2009, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

I have a steel Goetz endpin, it does give me a boost in volume IF the floor/stage is resonant to some degree. If it's wood over concrete, it doesn't seem to matter if the crutch tip is on or not.
.

+1 to that.

However, when it doubt, leave it on. The boost in volume usually marginal compared to that awful sound and distraction endpin slippage can cause. Unless it's a wood floor I know I can dig my pin into, I don't risk it. Also, when playing a party of event in someone home I also always leave it on. I know this sounds like a no-brainer, but I seen too many dudes messing up people's floors.

Just remember: Practice safe bass, use a rubber.

Nathan Parker · #4 02-19-2009, 09:21 AM

I have never tried diggin' my pin into the ground. Mainly because most the gigs I play are private parties or restaurants, and I doubt they would approve of such behavior. But, now that I hear so many people are doin' it, I may give it a shot and see if anyone notices.

Dave Speranza · #5 02-19-2009, 08:34 PM

Just remember...it's always easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission...

Phil Rowan · #6 02-19-2009, 11:10 PM

If I don't have to worry about the floor, I always take the rubber tip off.

jgbass · #7 02-19-2009, 11:37 PM

If your bass is slipping when you are sitting, you might try what a lot of orchestral player use. Its a strap that anchors on one end to the chair, and then you put the endpin in on the other end of it. This picture is not the best, but it gives you an idea what it is. Very effective. With this in place, there is really no way the bass can slip.

http://shop5.mailordercentral.com/le...uctinfo/A1242/

fdeck · #8 02-20-2009, 08:11 PM

When I saw Edgar Meyer front the Madison Symphony, he made an obvious point of firmly pressing his endpin into the stage before playing, taking the whole bass by the shoulders and pushing down with both hands.

SpamBot · #9 02-20-2009, 08:15 PM

A little off topic, but I've found the best way of preventing slippage is to take off a shoe and put the endpin into it. This works especially well if you have sneakers, as those have great treads on the bottom.

It does kind of defeat the purpose of taking off the rubber tip though.

mr.lipski · #10 02-20-2009, 11:51 PM

I always take the knob off. My spike is pretty sharp so it slips more with the rubber knob on that with it off, and the knob is noisy too - for some reason it creaks every time I move when I'm playing.

When I'm playing on marble/concrete/floors that I'm not allowed to dig into, I use a stop that I made myself. It's very simple, works better than most commercially-produced rubber stops, and is less hassle than the ones that attach to the leg of your chair. I got a piece of wood (any old wood from under your house will do), a square about 1"-2" inches and 6" wide. Then I stapled some cutting board grip to one side, and it sticks like glue! Cutting board grip is a rubber mesh that comes in big sheets - they sell it to use in the kitchen underneath your cutting board to stop it slipping. Most hardware stores should have it.

The advantage of using the wood is that it's soft so your endpin will stick into it, and it doesn't affect the sound at all (or in my case, it stops the extra noises made by my rubber tip). If your spike isn't that sharp you could drill into it about a half-inch to make something for your spike to rest against to stop it slipping.

bonaventura · #11 02-21-2009, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Yeah, if there's a wood surface I can really plant the pin in, but I stand so the slipping issue isn't that great. There's only been a couple of times that I actually carved a hole to put the pin in.

I have a steel Goetz endpin, it does give me a boost in volume IF the floor/stage is resonant to some degree. If it's wood over concrete, it doesn't seem to matter if the crutch tip is on or not.

I've used it on carpet over wood stages (like Birdland or Sweet Rhythm) and you get a similar response, since there's one less insulating layer between you and a resonant surface.

Thanks for your responses.

Wood floor or stage or some other resonant material is good for diggin' in. If it's carpet and you know wood is underneath, I guess that would work just as well if you can pierce through the carpet into the wood.

One other thing I've experienced is if you are using an amp on a resonant wooden floor or particularly a hollow stage, the floor vibration can induce feedback. But that's true whether or not you dig the spike into the floor.

Interesting to get responses on the slipping issue too. I practice with a piece of wood on the floor and over the years the spike -- a pretty sharp point on a 10mm rod -- dug it's own hole. At gigs where I don't remove the rubber I stand more often now just because of the slipping thing.

And my rubber stopper is alway loosening up. Makes me feel like Jack Lemmon in "Some Like It Hot", spinning my bass around clockwise continually to keep the thing screwed on.

Is that why the stereotyped Hollywood bassist is always rotating it? I always thought it was just fancy showmanship until I realized the rubber can buzz.