Do Necks Ever Crack If Shaved Down?

jgbass · #1 09-16-2009, 09:18 AM

I mentioned to my bass teacher that I was thinking of having the neck shaved down and made thinner. This is on a fine German Eastman Rudoulf Doetsch bass. It is a lot thicker than the neck on my other bass, and I would like the necks to be more similar. I have had this done before on Chinese basses with no problem.

I was surprised at the comment I received from teacher that was almost like a warning: this could cause the neck to snap. Hmmmm, is this a realistic concern or would a good luthier know how much a neck could tolerate, and how would that be assessed? I live in the LA area, and have my choice of several fine luthiers. Thinking of going to Jon at World of Strings.

**Damon Rondeau** · #2 09-16-2009, 10:17 AM

Seems very unlikely to me, but I'm just one of those woodworker guys who dabbles in basic bass luthiery. I'm sure you're not talking about removing a huge quantity of neck stock. If it was good stock to begin with, there won't be grain runout issues and so forth. Also, that big old piece of ebony fingerboard has got WAY more strength than the neck itself (which is actually pretty flimsy without the fingerboard.)

Jake deVilliers · #3 09-16-2009, 10:18 AM

Get thee to a luthier forthwith! Pronto! Quickly! Vite!

jgbass · #4 09-16-2009, 02:30 PM

Ah, good advice. I got thee on the phone and had a talk with Jon at World of Strings. Yes, probably do-able, but not until the instrument is thoroughly checked out and considered. Just shaving the neck may affect the bass in other ways. So, off to WOS on Friday for a pre-surgery evaluation. This is not just going to be a quick out-patient surgery and home the same afternoon either, if it is advised.

drurb · #5 09-16-2009, 02:54 PM

Just curious-- is the neck on your Doetsch bass thicker than what one typically encounters on a good bass or is the neck on your other bass atypically thin? Neither? Both? Any chance it's just a matter of getting used to it? Forgive me for asking, I'm sure you've thought about this. I'm just conservative when it comes to modifications like these.

jgbass · #6 09-17-2009, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drurb

Just curious-- is the neck on your Doetsch bass thicker than what one typically encounters on a good bass or is the neck on your other bass atypically thin? Neither? Both? Any chance it's just a matter of getting used to it? Forgive me for asking, I'm sure you've thought about this. I'm just conservative when it comes to modifications like these.

You have asked the question that has been on my mind too. No, I would not say the Doetsch has a really thick neck. It is more that the cheaper Chinese bass I use more for jazz has a thinner neck. Since my biggest current bass challenge is intonation I was thinking that having similar necks might be helpful for intonation issues.

The Doetsch is my bass of choice for me after trying many basses at the ISB Convention. I bought it there. It totally spoke to me. It has the fit for me with playability, and the nice tone I get as well. I really am still a little undecided on having this done.

Jake deVilliers · #7 09-17-2009, 10:05 AM

Hey Janet, make sure you communicate your ambivalence as well as your wishes. We're in the service business and want to make our customers happy.

Eric Hochberg · #8 09-17-2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgbass

The Doetsch is my bass of choice for me after trying many basses at the ISB Convention. I bought it there. It totally spoke to me. It has the fit for me with playability, and the nice tone I get as well. I really am still a little undecided on having this done.

Janet, why don't you just play this bass for the next couple of months and put the other away. That way you'll really be able to see if it works for you as is.

Phil Rowan · #9 09-17-2009, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehochberg

Janet, why don't you just play this bass for the next couple of months and put the other away. That way you'll really be able to see if it works for you as is.

+1

Cody Sisk · #10 09-17-2009, 11:30 AM

I believe the Doetsch necks are two-piece. This might be a problem if the neck is thinned, especially if the joined pieces are of different densities which could cause warping.

Either spend the time to adjust your technique and get used to the thicker neck or have it looked at thoroughly by a luthier. A good fingerboard dressing might be an alternative option. I think they have pretty thick fingerboards as well.

jgbass · #11 09-18-2009, 08:25 AM

That's something I did not even consider! Yes, the fingerboard is thick, about 1/2 inch. I will just have it checked out today and not rush into anything. Thanks, Janette

jgbass · #12 09-18-2009, 08:53 PM

Jon at WOS checked out my Doetsche bass today and said the best course of action would be to reshape the neck (vs. fingerboard) dressing. He really checked the bass out, and agreed that the shape of the neck was not the best for playing. It is rounded in an odd kind of way and there are also kind of sharp edges near the lower end of the fingerboard that could be smooted out as well.

So I agreed to have this done. I am just not happy with the current neck, although I this this bass is awesome in every other way. He did warn me that some of the finish on the back might have to come off. I am not worried about that. I agreed to have this done.

Janette

jgbass · #13 09-26-2009, 03:44 PM

And the bass has been sitting there for over a week. No work done. Would it not make sense for a bass shop to say something like bring it in on Tuesday, leave it for a few days and we will get it done by Thursday.

Last week they said it would be done this week. Yesterday they said it would be done yesterday or today. When I called today, they said, of, we should be able to get to it next week. I really do not want to play these games with World of Strings.

Guess what. They have until Monday and I am picking it up Monday and told them that. I have options around here. I have heard unverified stories about basses sitting and sitting there, and I cannot afford to be in that position.

uprightben · #14 09-27-2009, 01:38 PM

I've only been to one luthier in L.A., but Lisa Gass sure did impress me...

glenfong · #15 09-27-2009, 10:06 PM

Janette,

I kind of think Jon takes Monday off. I've called on a Monday recently, and Ralph was running the repair shop.

There's a lot of basses getting worked on for students and schools this month (that time of year) but I think they should have let you know that they are swamped with work as a courtesy.

Did you get an estimate for the labor or does he charge by the hour? Just curious. Lisa over at L.A. Bassworks says a neck reshaping is real labor intensive, as she lets out a small sigh. She does manage to get repairs done in a timely manner in my experience.

About the thinness of your other bass neck, my 1st Chinese bass has a ridiculously thin neck. Upgraded to a better Chinese bass (Wan Bernadel) with a much thicker neck, the seller advised to play it for 6 months before making any changes to the neck. Real good advice. It feels more comfortable (surprising!) and when I play the thin neck, it seems to make my hand tired real quick because I'm squeezing it harder. Was planning on thinning the Wan's neck but not now. However you mentioned your new bass neck has the sharp edges and odd rounded shape that should be addressed.

jgbass · #16 09-28-2009, 01:16 PM

Glen,

I picked up my unrepaired bass at WOS today. Sat there for 12 days, nothing done. Was supposed to be repaired by last week. Only Ralph was there. Not a word, not a bid to hey, we're sorry and/or let's schedule something later. When I got home it sure looked like my bass had been played and nicked on the both sides with a bow. So, more repairs, and what can I prove about that? All I can say is I never noticed all those nicks before unless they happened in my case in transport? Wish I had taken pictures when I got there to leave it. I am furious. Never again.
So, more work to be done.

To answer your question, WOS estimated $100. Even though I know only good things about Lisa, I have also had only positive experiences with Lemur, and I know they would be able to do this the same day. They did a neck for me before and other really nice work of the kind I will be needing.

I like my Chinese bass as it is. It is the one I am comfortable taking to the university and to a questionable gig and storing at the university. It is the new Lemur Liberty Bell, designed specifically for jazz, input from Stanely Clark, and sounds just great. I like the thin neck, does not bother my hand at all.

The Eastman is my orchestra bass, and, of course, is great for jazz too, so not looking for a super thin neck, just a little reshaving, that's all. And, I doubt Lemur will charge as much either and I will get the other stuff taken care of too.

Jack Clark · #17 09-19-2010, 09:32 AM

Janet, I've been looking for some comments from a bassist who owns or has tried a Lemur Liberty Belle. It's Chinese? It has a thinner neck than most? What else can you tell us about it?

glenfong · #18 09-19-2010, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Clark

Janet, I've been looking for some comments from a bassist who owns or has tried a Lemur Liberty Belle. It's Chinese? It has a thinner neck than most? What else can you tell us about it?

Jack, pm Marco Panascia (jazzbass72), he has a Liberty Belle for sale

robobass · #19 09-20-2010, 08:11 AM

Just going back to the original post... I posit that necks crack because of two things: inferior wood (and/or improper grain direction), or extreme hits. In either case shaving some thickness off the neck won't statistically increase risk. Based on posts to this forum, it seems 97% of broken necks and scrolls happen on the lowest end instruments, and neck thickness doesn't appear to be a factor. If you encounter an extreme event like neck sticking out of taxi vs. truck mirror then it won't really matter how thick your neck is. Shave, shave, shave!