Do stock Englehardts need new soundposts?

armybass · #1 01-09-2007, 09:03 PM

I have upgraded the end pin, bridge, tail piece and tail piece wire on my ES1 and am wondering if the sound post would also be a good candidate for an upgrade. The one in there looks, well... cheap.

Gufenov · #2 01-10-2007, 07:21 AM

You're courageous for asking about a lowly Engelhardt on this forum. Seems like every time the name is mentioned there is a barrage of BS about the narrow neck and how you'll develop poor tecnique and injury from it. Why, within a year your elbow will be the size of a grapefruit and your knuckles will freeze solid. Please disregard anything you've heard about the many bassists who have achieved success with Kays and Engles - they are only illusions.

Seriously, my ES-1 still has the original soundpost. It's a cannon.

Chasarms · #3 01-10-2007, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gufenov

You're courageous for asking about a lowly Engelhardt on this forum. Seems like every time the name is mentioned there is a barrage of BS about the narrow neck and how you'll develop poor tecnique and injury from it. Why, within a year your elbow will be the size of a grapefruit and your knuckles will freeze solid. Please disregard anything you've heard about the many bassists who have achieved success with Kays and Engles - they are only illusions.

Seriously, my ES-1 still has the original soundpost. It's a cannon.

I think perhaps the Gufster is overreacting. As a former Engelhardt owner, I have given and received plenty of opinions about the design, but I have never gotten anything as he suggested.

As to the question:

I would be more concerned about the fit of the post than the actual post. One of those handy little mirrors on a telescoping rod is a handy tool for a DBer. Just make sure it hinges at the mirror end. If you have a little light that will slip through the FFs, that's even better.

So, once you can examine the fit, you are looking for a nice tight seam all the way around the post on both ends. A post on edge or poorly fitted can cause damage to the bass and do more to kill tone than the quality of the wood.

I'll take a correctly fitted cheap post any day over a poorly fitted "aged 5,000 years, original growth, Austrian Spruce fertilized with the manure of the finest German stallions" post.

It's a stick.

drurb · #4 01-10-2007, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gufenov

Seems like every time the name is mentioned there is a barrage of BS about the narrow neck and how you'll develop poor tecnique and injury from it...

Well, while others may exaggerate, it is hardly BS. I owned a Kay for 30+ years. I'd say I was quite successful with it. Would I recommend it? No. Would I ever go back? No way. Unless one has unusually small hands, the thin necks on Kays and Engels do, in fact, inhibit the formation of the proper left-hand "claw." Especially for students, this is, IMO, a substantial hindrance. Sure there are many successful DBers who play Kays and Engels. There are also many successful DBers who play those and other basses with "collapsed" left-hand techniques. If it works for them, then fine. The point is that, a priori, it's not, IMO, the road of choice.

bassplayer2 · #5 01-17-2007, 11:59 AM

Frankly, if it sounds good don't mess with it. I have changed the tailpiece wire on my M-1- got rid of the coat hanger and replaced the bridge with an adjustable bridge. Those two things along with different strings have greatly improved the sound.

I have another bass that had the soundpost replaced but it was more for fit and placement than for a higher quality soundpost (how can you tell if a soundpost is of higher quality?)

As for the thin neck on my M-1, IMO it doesn't make a whole lot of difference. My other bass doesn't have a thin neck and I play both of them. I also learned on Kays in high school and if a "claw" is important, I have it and probably poor technique as well.

jimclark68 · #6 01-18-2007, 11:32 AM

I used to have an EM-1, and took it to a luthier for setup work. I always thought the soundpost looked like garbage. In adjusting the soundpost, he went ahead and replaced it with a quality soundpost. He showed me the stock soundpost, and guess what? It was garbage. Regardless of whether you have it replaced or not, a propoer fit will absolutely help your sound.

Silversorcerer · #7 01-18-2007, 09:16 PM

There has been some debate on the type of soundpost that is in a Kay or an Engle and in the Kay basses it was a type of hardwood, not spruce. One opinion is that this was to save money, however when the Kays were made, spruce was easier to get than most hardwoods, so it is unlikely that this is the reason. I don't know what they use now, but it is definitely true that fit and placement is more important than the piece of wood. I'm just curious for those who claim the original Engle post is "garbage". What clued you in to that deduction? Just wondering.

jimclark68 · #8 01-19-2007, 04:58 AM

I couldn't tell you the differences between types of wood, but the "garbage" stock sound post had splinters of wood sticking out of the sides and was poorly cut on the ends.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silversorcerer

There has been some debate on the type of soundpost that is in a Kay or an Engle and in the Kay basses it was a type of hardwood, not spruce. One opinion is that this was to save money, however when the Kays were made, spruce was easier to get than most hardwoods, so it is unlikely that this is the reason. I don't know what they use now, but it is definitely true that fit and placement is more important than the piece of wood. I'm just curious for those who claim the original Engle post is "garbage". What clued you in to that deduction? Just wondering.

armybass · #9 01-19-2007, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimclark68

I couldn't tell you the differences between types of wood, but the "garbage" stock sound post had splinters of wood sticking out of the sides and was poorly cut on the ends.

Exactly.

Silversorcerer · #10 01-21-2007, 06:07 PM

Well, I guess I could have guessed that it would look like garbage. Splinters probably are not significant indicators of the wood as much as the milling, but the ends not being fitted means you need a fitted post, and most of the time with a swelled back bass that means a new post because these only really fit in one place. Any adjustment at the ends will make it shorter and it will not fit properly. Good spruce is pretty soft and can be dented with a fingernail very easily. If you can't dent it easily it is some other type of wood. I'm just curious to know if Engle is still using a hardwood like was used in the old Kay basses. Also if you drop the post on a hard floor, good spruce has a certain hollow ring to it. Without something to compare it to, that will be hard to hear but the dent test should tell you whether it is softwood or hardwood. Whether it is garbage or not, well, perhaps it could be fitted to a different bass and the splinters lightly sanded away.