E string slow response

[Dr Rod]

Hi Friends

I just got my new Chandler/Tarr copy. Willow tonewood in bass size was not to be found so it has black poplar back and ribs. Thanks for the advice everyone. The tone is beautifully round and full.

Special thanks to Arnold Schnitzer for his patient and kind counsel.


Now to the point.
Keeping in mind that the bass is still green, and that we are getting acquainted with each other, the E string doesn't seem to respond quickly enough when played loudly. Especially when compared with the A string. It has plenty of volume when the note is sustained, but tends to choke in the attack. One could say that it articulates poorly.

What sorts of adjustments do you think could help?

Thanks

Rod

[nicklloyd]

What E string are you using? Is this under the bow, or pizz?

[Dr Rod]

Thanks Nick

The problem is under the bow. The orchestral pizzes were fine at rehearsal.

I have tried different E strings: spirocore mittel, pirastro chromcor, pirastro flatchrome original, thomastik dominant, helicore medium, etc...

So far the dominants are the best, and the originals were the deadest.

Dominants, spirocores, helicores and chromcors are all sort of passable, but they all reveal the articulation problem.

I am ordering a spiro stark to see how it sounds.

[nicklloyd]

Try a Pirastro Permanent. It has a quick attack, but is fuller sounding than a Helicore.

[Dr Rod]

I shall add it to my order.

Thanks again

[anonymous0726]

Is it responding slowly out front? Maybe it's blasting some good, strong fundamental before the rest of the overtone series gets going. Have someone run out about 30 feet and see what it's doing.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by Ray Parker

Is it responding slowly out front? Maybe it's blasting some good, strong fundamental before the rest of the overtone series gets going. Have someone run out about 30 feet and see what it's doing.

I'll do the test this week !

[Dr Rod]

Thanks Nick and Ray.

I sat in the hall and had someone play the instrument with the Pirastro Permanent. The bass sounds better than before, but there is still room for improvement.

I noticed that the bass has a very central bass bar and that the left foot of the bridge is sitting completely on the bass bar, and sticking out to the outer side. My other basses had the foot of the bridge sitting on the inner edge of the bass bar, not completely on it (5 string). Is this Kosher?

[arnoldschnitzer]

If the bass bar is very "central", or positioned toward the middle of the top, then the space between bass bar and soundpost is narrow. Since the sound post is a pivot, or stiff point, bass response can be inhibited when this occurs, as the bass bar is too close to the pivot point, and can't move in space as much as you'd like.

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

If the bass bar is very "central", or positioned toward the middle of the top, then the space between bass bar and soundpost is narrow. Since the sound post is a pivot, or stiff point, bass response can be inhibited when this occurs, as the bass bar is too close to the pivot point, and can't move in space as much as you'd like.

Unfortunate news, thanks anyway.

Should I try an outer soundpost position (within normal range) ?

Could a raised saddle free up the top a bit?

Later on, if all else fails, could a bass bar be repositioned? (I understand the $ factor)

The bass bar was positioned after the original Tarr design, I guess Tarr knew well how to make a bass sound good this way.

[arnoldschnitzer]

Originally Posted by Dr Rod

Should I try an outer soundpost position (within normal range) ?

That's what I would try first. A position about 8-10mm farther out than the bass bar. (Make sure the post gets re-fitted to the new spot.)

[jneuman]

Originally Posted by Dr Rod

The bass bar was positioned after the original Tarr design, I guess Tarr knew well how to make a bass sound good this way.

That bass was no doubt a 3-stringer. The bass bar may not have been relocated when converted to four. Narrow bridges are part of the deal with Tarr'. Just set the thing up with the correct bridge and string spacing. Flatback germanesque basses sound better with gut string or dominants IMO. Round back Italianesque basses work better with Flexocor type strings. I'm typecasting here to some extent. Does the A string have a deep sub-harmonic type sound like an Organ pedal? Remember that a big flat back body will flab around alot till you get the feel of the resonse and learn to play with, rather than against the resonances.
-Jon

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by jneuman

Does the A string have a deep sub-harmonic type sound like an Organ pedal?

Thanks Jon

The A actually sounds and responds like an organ on steroids, no complaints there, or the upper strings for that matter. The E string sounds good once it gets going.

I understand the part about the bridge with narrow feet, but what do you mean by "correct" spacing in the Tarr context?

[Dr Rod]

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

That's what I would try first. A position about 8-10mm farther out than the bass bar. (Make sure the post gets re-fitted to the new spot.)

Boy, I wish I were within driving distance from your shop.

[Anonymous75966]

Originally Posted by jneuman

That bass was no doubt a 3-stringer. The bass bar may not have been relocated when converted to four. Narrow bridges are part of the deal with Tarr'. Just set the thing up with the correct bridge and string spacing.-Jon

Chandler's instrument setups usually need a bit of help from new - hopefully that's all you need. They are great sounding basses though.

I played the first Tarr he made a few years ago. Definitely a huge-sounding bass, not to mention huge. Congrats.

[Dr Rod]

After much fiddling, I have to say that the problem is solved. The bass sounds huge and beautiful with almost any string.

Very strange soundpost behaviour, it gives the best bass and E string response whilst being toward the center and near the foot of the bridge. Go figure.
Sadly there is nobody in the area with the skill to do a proper soundpost fitting.

The raised saddle made a big difference in the overall sound and response of the bass. The bass is much looser.

The tailpiece wires also helped in the same way the raised saddle did, but the bass became quite wolfey. I have learned to play around it and you can rarely hear it.


Thanks again to everyone that helped.