Electronic tuner--Correct use? [DB]

[Jack Clark]

I have one of those very small clip-on electronic tuners for my unusual acoustic bass. Generally, when I pizz a string once, the tuner comes up with a reading--say, dead on A, for example--it will hold steady there for a couple of seconds, then--as the tone degrades in volume--it will go sharp by 20 cents or so, and hold steady on that second sharper reading for three or four seconds.

Is this common when tuning DB strings? It is correct to tune with the first reading that comes up, rather than the later and longer one that shows after the tone degrades in volume?

My tuner is a Meisel, if that matters.

[robobass]

It's just string physics. If a string is left to ring on its own, it will go slightly sharp as it decays. That's why you can't tune a piano string by string with an electronic tuner. The harmonics of the lower strings will ring sharp, and beat against the the higher strings.
On the double bass this effect can be more or less of an issue depending on the instrument and the kind of strings. On my instruments the movement is no more than two or three cents. If you tune with the bow, the moving hair keeps the string at a constant pitch, so you eliminate the problem. Some would argue that if you play mainly pizz, you should tune pizz, but I think it's simply more precise to tune with the bow.

For you I guess this isn't an option though. Just tune in whatever way makes the instrument "sound" in tune when playing. What strings do you use? You might be able to reduce the effect by switching to a more flexible string.

[dvh]

Same thing happens to me but I figure for my purposes - I don't record, just gig occasionally - any slight inaccuracy will go unnoticed: it's more than close enough... I play pizz only.

[Jack Clark]

Originally Posted by dvh

Same thing happens to me but I figure for my purposes - I don't record, just gig occasionally - any slight inaccuracy will go unnoticed: it's more than close enough... I play pizz only.

One of the BG guys suggested plucking the string more softly during tuning. I tried this and it seems to help quite a bit--at least if there is any sharpening on decay, I don't see it. I was surprised that the tuner would register when I plucked softly, but it does--even on the low E string that is sometimes hard to get to register when I pluck harder. The little tuner will actually correctly register strings when I pluck them so softly that I can't hear them myself. (Although, admittedly, my ears aren't so good any more.)


I wish I could bow this thing, but I can't except for the two outside strings, and they're pretty dodgy. (I might get away with a final ballad note, but not much more.) After tuning by pizzing the string very softly--up by the nut with my fingernail--I'm getting an instrument that sounds, and somehow even "feels," more in tune with itself, if you know what I mean. It just has a better ring to it when I'm playing any notes.

[MattyBass]

I am a Bass/instrument tech, the way I was taught to tune instruments accurately was by plucking the note every 1 1/2 seconds.. In a droning like pattern.. not really giving it a chance to change pitch.
Although that I will say in my humble opinion that most tuners aren't that super...
When tuning my Instruments I usually will get one note from the tuner.. and then harmonically tune from there..

Also I have found that many tuners are different..
So, check make sure that your fellow musicians tuners are in the "same" tune as yours.. this sounds crazy but I'm sure I can't be the only one who has experienced this.?? lol..
I always like to hit a reference A for players in the band, and double check that were all good.. I cant tell you how many times we've had to retune because a piano was flat or a keyboard was sharp.. and if i wouldnt have checked it probably wouldnt of sounded to nice..

As a Bassist I take it as my responsibility ensure that everyone is in perfect 440 tuning.. or as close as possible. lol, but general rule when tuning is always take your notes from the piano.. and double check with all the instruments of your group..

Hope this was helpful...

[George700DL]

Originally Posted by MattyBass

I am a Bass/instrument tech, the way I was taught to tune instruments accurately was by plucking the note every 1 1/2 seconds.. In a droning like pattern.. not really giving it a chance to change pitch.
Although that I will say in my humble opinion that most tuners aren't that super...
When tuning my Instruments I usually will get one note from the tuner.. and then harmonically tune from there..

Also I have found that many tuners are different..
So, check make sure that your fellow musicians tuners are in the "same" tune as yours.. this sounds crazy but I'm sure I can't be the only one who has experienced this.?? lol..
I always like to hit a reference A for players in the band, and double check that were all good.. I cant tell you how many times we've had to retune because a piano was flat or a keyboard was sharp.. and if i wouldnt have checked it probably wouldnt of sounded to nice..

As a Bassist I take it as my responsibility ensure that everyone is in perfect 440 tuning.. or as close as possible. lol, but general rule when tuning is always take your notes from the piano.. and double check with all the instruments of your group..

Hope this was helpful...

For unfretted string instruments like violin and viola, I was always taught to just tune 1 string to a reference (tuner, piano, or whatever you're playing with), and tune everything in reference to that. Typically this would be the A string. I'm pretty sure this is a good idea for the upright bass as well, but I'm not a bass player yet.

We generally tune the A string and then put the tuner away, tuning everything else according to that A.

George

[sirero]

^^^ this. Only on bass its the D string 7th harmonic Which is your 440 A, and then adjust from there. Although if your playing pizz almost solely and dont have a bow then I would totally do what the Tech is saying.

I actually do a combination of both have three tuners lined up (mine, trumpet sections, and conductors[all three stay on throughout the whole show or practice]) and tune up with the harmonics.

Before anyone says anything, yes I know thats overkill.

[Jack Clark]

I very much like the idea of tuning one string, then tuning the others harmonically to that one. Ed Friedland demos this on his DVD. But I'm sure it works best with arco.

Also, I devised a new saddle for my bridge recently, and that has made it much easier to get this instrument in tune with itself than previously when I had no effective saddle at all.

All of these tips have helped a lot, guys, thanks much. TB forum comes through again! Great resource.

[Andrew McGregor]

When you're tuning harmonics, watch out for the higher harmonic being flat... you don't want a perfect match between the tuning harmonics, you're looking instead for a roughly 3 beats per second beat between them. if you don't, the errors stack up and your G string will be noticeably flatter than it should be.

[Jack Clark]

Originally Posted by Andrew McGregor

When you're tuning harmonics, watch out for the higher harmonic being flat... you don't want a perfect match between the tuning harmonics, you're looking instead for a roughly 3 beats per second beat between them. if you don't, the errors stack up and your G string will be noticeably flatter than it should be.

. . . and just when I think I've got it figured out, . . . .

[drurb]

Originally Posted by Jack Clark

. . . and just when I think I've got it figured out, . . . .

Keep doing what you're doing-- the error is mostly a result of deviation from the well-tempered scale and is quite small.