Exaggerated overtones on A string

Bassalova · #1 12-20-2009, 10:36 AM

I have a problem, that seem to have appeared pretty recently. I changed to a new set of Bel Cantos, and the A string has got pretty exaggerated overtones on the notes B flat, B and C. The B is the worst. the overtone (or harmonic some will say) is a major sixth to the played tone. I this a wolf issue, or is it simply the absence of scoop in my fingerboard that provoke these overtones? I working on the fingerboard right now, gently making a bigger scoop on the A and E string.
Anyone got an idea?

Jake deVilliers · #2 12-20-2009, 12:43 PM

What strings were on there previously? What are the notes of the afterlengths?

wayne holmes · #3 12-25-2009, 10:58 PM

try putting the string deeper into the bridge-in other words make the notch deeper-it might tone it down a little and help it overall IME/O

William Hoffman · #4 12-26-2009, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayne holmes

try putting the string deeper into the bridge-in other words make the notch deeper-it might tone it down a little and help it overall IME/O

do you mean deeper than the customary "not more than one-half of the string diameter" depth? or do you mean just go a tiny bit deeper but not more than the usual?

wayne holmes · #5 12-26-2009, 04:28 AM

I mean- make sure that it is at least the customary depth---if that doesn't help-try a tiny bit deeper-your thoughts William? It could be that the new string is not all the way in the notch if the new Belcanto is a larger dia than what was there before. I just meant that this is something that he could check. I say this because I have installed a few new strings that sounded wolfy and getting them to proper depth on the bridge made a difference(corrected it)--I don't recall going deeper than the 1/2 half dia, but I may have, as you say, a tiny bit. Anyway, hope it is corrected and that we all find out what it was. Hppay Holidays

with lots of bass love

Bassalova · #6 01-04-2010, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayne holmes

try putting the string deeper into the bridge-in other words make the notch deeper-it might tone it down a little and help it overall IME/O

Aha...this might be the source for the overtones. I did earlier elevate the A-string a bit, building a new elevated notch with a tiny piece of wood and some waterproof wood-glue. I earlier found the A-string to be somehow lower on the fingerboard than the other strings in comparison.
I also seem to have the winter/summer soundpost problem, cause my strings are to low now in the winter. I think it does something to the top also, putting more stress to the top-board. I´m now reallly considering a new adjustable bridge and maybe a winter soundpost.

Cody Sisk · #7 01-04-2010, 10:21 AM

This is a wolf tone issue. I'll bet you're hitting the natural resonance of your bass on those stronger notes. There's a lot of variables to consider when addressing this problem. This could likely be corrected by a proper setup.

A good setup by a luthier specializing in bass repair might be warranted based on the posts you've made thus far. Before dropping money on a new bridge, you might be surprised to find that with a little adjustment, your current bridge will work just fine. Also, you can install adjusters in a bridge without replacing the entire bridge. If you're not an experienced luthier, you're biting off more than you can chew here. Save money and time and get a professional opinion and estimate.

Paul Warburton · #8 01-04-2010, 10:28 AM

A wolf tone eliminator might work...

Turnaround · #9 01-05-2010, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

What strings were on there previously? What are the notes of the afterlengths?

The notes of the afterlength is something I have pondered for some time. There's no doubt that they contribute to the overall quality of the note sounded, but it's not always a harmonious contribution. Now I must admit that most of my playing is through a piezo pickup amplified, but I find that I get the best result when I dampen the afterlength.

Don't the problems of afterlengths counter their benefits? If in fact the afterlength is the culprit in this case, isn't it just more trouble than benefit? This is a question that has plagued me for a very long time - any argument I have heard to date has been inconclusive.

Bassalova · #10 01-06-2010, 06:10 AM

I have been thinking the same thing. But tuning the afterlenght to octave and a fourth has made some improvement on the sound. The afterlength does also do something with the stiffness of the strings

Turnaround · #11 01-06-2010, 08:21 AM

But I question the octave-and-a-fourth thing. Once you stop the string, the overlength is no longer octave+4. In fact sometimes it's going to be a nasty interval.

Just another thing I puzzle over....

Square Bear · #12 01-06-2010, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turnaround

But I question the octave-and-a-fourth thing. Once you stop the string, the overlength is no longer octave+4. In fact sometimes it's going to be a nasty interval.

Just another thing I puzzle over....

right... so are the open strings though. it seems to me that if the afterlengths are in tune to the bass, it will be beneficial to the overall sound. a nasty interval that is at least in tune is better than any random microtonal interval isn't it?

Jake deVilliers · #13 01-06-2010, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Square Bear

right... so are the open strings though. it seems to me that if the afterlengths are in tune to the bass, it will be beneficial to the overall sound. a nasty interval that is at least in tune is better than any random microtonal interval isn't it?

Right. Its about phase cancellation. If your afterlength is ringing at say A minus 35 cents, it will take all A notes, fundamentals and overtones alike, right out of the instrument.

Don't take my word for it, try it.

Turnaround · #14 01-06-2010, 04:26 PM

So that brings me back to my original question - wouldn't it be better just to dampen the afterlengths and have no cancellations at all?