fingerboard question

Big B. · #1 09-28-2010, 07:41 PM

I am thinking about a new fingerboard for a bass. Can you guys think of any reason that cocobolo or ziricote wouldn't work for a fingerboard? Other than the tradition thing of course. They are both very hard, especially cocobolo, and are considered to be fine tonewoods. I am not looking for a different sound I just think it would look really sharp. Any thoughts?

1st Bass · #2 09-28-2010, 08:12 PM

Cocobolo is toxic to some people-- or at least causes such violent allergic reactions as to be considered toxic. I'm OK if I don't inhale the dust-- all the rosewood family woods are really allergenic in dust form...for me at least. But I remember being told of a woman who had a chinrest made of it (no, she didn't play bass), and ended up with weeping blisters all down her jaw and neck. Just a thought.

My son has used it for guitar fretboards-- as you say, it looks great and works fine.

BTW, Ipé works fine, but is not as pretty...

Big B. · #3 09-28-2010, 09:28 PM

Yeah, I have seen people violently react to cocobolo. I have worked with it a decent bit and haven't had any issues with it other than the standard unpleasantness. I think cocobolo or ziricote would work well because they are still nice and dark. From a distance it would be hard to tell. I wouldn't mind a nice sapwood streak though.

james condino · #4 09-28-2010, 10:45 PM

Ziricote is pretty brittle and heavy. Cocobolo is very oily, so it makes a mess out of any power sanding tools you may use during the process, and can be tempermental when gluing. It is fairly close to Brazilian rosewood (D.Nigra) in working characteristics and tone, so it makes a very close replacement for an old Brazilian fingerboard.

I've recently made a couple of replacement fingerboards out of Morado, also known as Pao ferro or Bolivian rosewood. Well quartered, highest grades of it have all of the visual qualities of nice Brazilian rosewood, yet it is almost dry when you work it- closer to ebony in working characteristics.

Swartzia Cubensis, commercially known as Katalox, makes a great mid level replacement board and is available very fair priced. It is more chocolate brown in color, but makes a far superior 'board than some of the low end commercially available boards that seem to flood the bottom feeder market.

When you can find it, African blackwood (D. melanoxia) makes for a great fingerboard, but it weighs a ton, and some folks have very bad reactions to it ( I'm getting more sensitized to it). Almost all of the exotic imports have some allergen component and you will generally increase you sensitivities to them all with increased exposure. There is a particular batch of striped macassar ebony used for the fingerboards in old American Standard plywood basses that I have run into several times that sets me off for a couple of days....

You could use almost anything you wanted, as long as you had a good cut and it was well seasoned. Leo Fender proved that you could sell millions of blonde maple fngerboards to a brand new market given enough advertising dollars...

j.

tornadobass · #5 09-29-2010, 05:26 AM

I'd add bubinga to the list of fingerboard woods...my bug bass has that wood and it's held up well for a decade now. It is a lighter colored wood than what's conventional, but looks pretty. Color is similar to pao ferro.

vejesse · #6 09-29-2010, 07:20 AM

You're making a bass fingerboard from scratch? Sounds like a lot of work to me.
I wouldn't recommend Cocobolo, it's actually softer than hard maple. Blackwood is harder, hard enough for nuts anyway.

Better yet, save yourself some time and get a fingerboard from Metropolitan.

Matthijs · #7 09-29-2010, 07:36 AM

My 30's chech bass has a newer fingerboard made from something called 'brownwood'

from Surinam. It's lighter in colour en has a fairly open grain. I like the look, but it also does something special for the sound. It adds a nice resonant quality, especially in the middle registers. It gave me a unique voice.

Jake deVilliers · #8 09-29-2010, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vejesse

Better yet, save yourself some time and get a fingerboard from Metropolitan.

+1

Big B. · #9 09-29-2010, 11:45 AM

I have perfectly functioning fingerboard already so fortunately I dont need one. I should really get into this on another thread at some point but I am seriously considering converting my five string over to six string bass. Last weekend I made a new nut for my bass and put on all six strings. The bass has a very thick top and is holding up to the pressure well so far. The bass sounds great and I really enjoy the extended range. The only issue is the string spacing being to tight to play with the bow. I figure I need about a half inch of extra fingerboard to get the spacing I need for playing arco.

Since I am happy with the change I am now looking into a replacement fingerboard. Personally I cant afford what someone would charge me to make this board when I am pretty confident that I can do it on my own. A fingerboard like this will have to be custom made. I will have to start with a fingerboard that is wider than the neck. If I play that for a while and decide to truly make the plunge I will take the bass back to Solano and have the neck widened to match the board and the neck pocket recut to fit.

Since I am going to make the board I figured I should use the wood that I want. I am a complete nut for ziricote and cocobolo and have always wanted a board and matching tailpiece with a nice sapwood stripe on the E/B string side.

And please before someone else mentions it; I DO NOT WANT AN EXTENSION ON MY BASS.

Sorry, just felt like I should get that out of the way.

Thanks for the advice guys and I will post a thread on the bass when I get things a little further along.

Big B. · #10 09-29-2010, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vejesse

You're making a bass fingerboard from scratch? Sounds like a lot of work to me.
I wouldn't recommend Cocobolo, it's actually softer than hard maple. Blackwood is harder, hard enough for nuts anyway.

Better yet, save yourself some time and get a fingerboard from Metropolitan.

I have never seen a piece of cocobolo that was softer than any piece of maple. Are you sure we are talking about the same wood? IME cocobolo is very dense and hard with a lot of natural oils. I have used it for fretless BG fingerboards and it stands up extremely well to abrasion.

Cody Sisk · #11 09-29-2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big B.

I will have to start with a fingerboard that is wider than the neck. If I play that for a while and decide to truly make the plunge I will take the bass back to Solano and have the neck widened to match the board and the neck pocket recut to fit.

If I were to offer an opinion, widening the neck would be a serious undertaking. I'm scratching my head wondering if it can even be done but I would assume a whole new neck would be a better option. Either way, Solano would be justified in charging an arm and a leg for his kind of modification.

However, check out P-dub's (Paul Warburton) fiver. He has a fingerboard wider than the neck and seems very happy with it.

bSharp · #12 09-29-2010, 02:23 PM

Sorry to bring this down to my level of ignorance, but what is a six string bass? Is it B,E,A,D,G,C? Is your purpose to extend the overall range or to reduce shifting? What kind of music are you playing?

Big B. · #13 09-29-2010, 02:31 PM

I was actually going to use Paul's bass as an example. I like the look of the laminated neck on his bass. It seems it would add some stiffness to counteract the higher tension as well. IMO that would be the best way to go about widening the neck.
First you would have to remove the neck and remove the finger board. Make a jig for the bandsaw and split the neck down the middle. Once you smooth out the bandsaw lines glue the neck back together with laminates of ziricote or cocobolo to match the finger board. Trim the excess material away and reprofile the neck. As daunting as this is I am confident that I could do this on my own. Widening the neck slot is the part that I would not fell comfortable doing.
At the moment I have a BG tuner mounted through the tailpiece for the C string with the A and D strings sharing the same hole. Surprisingly enough the BG tuner works great and holds pitch. The bass has a scroll big enough for six tuners if I decide to make the permanent switch but for now I want the changes to be easily reversible.
I will definitely try the wider fingerboard to begin with and if I am happy I will stick with that. Deep thought will have to go into any sort of major rebuild.

Big B. · #14 09-29-2010, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bSharp

Sorry to bring this down to my level of ignorance, but what is a six string bass? Is it B,E,A,D,G,C? Is your purpose to extend the overall range or to reduce shifting? What kind of music are you playing?

You are correct about the tuning. I play classical and jazz about 50/50 . I have to leave the B string on during orchestra season for the low notes. During the summer I have very few classical gigs so I put on the C string and I really enjoy using it for jazz and classical solos. You are right about both the extended range and the ease of shifting. I have always dreamed about a 6 string so when I finally got fed up with changing out strings this year I decided to go for it.

Cody Sisk · #15 09-29-2010, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big B.

I was actually going to use Paul's bass as an example. I like the look of the laminated neck on his bass. It seems it would add some stiffness to counteract the higher tension as well. IMO that would be the best way to go about widening the neck.

After looking at it again, I now see that lamination in the middle, eliminates the head scratching now. It's like purfling on steroids.

This also makes more sense seeing the added ribs around the neck joint. I'll bet those were added to compensate for the widened neck mortise joint. That's a hellova project; of which I'm sure Solano would be quite capable of doing..

Big B. · #16 09-29-2010, 03:18 PM

How do you think that kind of rebuild would affect the value of an instrument. Do you weigh uniqueness vs. sellability? I never want to sell this bass but I do want to keep my investment in mind as well.

vejesse · #17 09-29-2010, 04:01 PM

Cocobolo has a Janka hardness rating lower than sugar maple and the Janka test is a good measure of how this wood would resist denting from the strings. Cocobolo is dense and somewhat tough but it's not hard. I don't like the way it works either - it's grain wants to break up into chunks when it's filed and it clogs sandpaper badly. Plus like other types of Rosewood the dust is nasty. I guess the up side is that there seems to be plenty of it out there - I think it's plantation grown. That yellow/brown color looks cool too. Maybe the pieces you got were harder for a some reason.

Paul Warburton · #18 09-29-2010, 04:37 PM

That one old dude has a nice bass there....that Wallbutton dude.

Eric Hochberg · #19 09-30-2010, 11:03 AM

Couldn't you just add a wider FB to your neck to accommodate the extra string? I've seen basses where this was done, a little strange but seems to work.

Big B. · #20 09-30-2010, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Hochberg

Couldn't you just add a wider FB to your neck to accommodate the extra string? I've seen basses where this was done, a little strange but seems to work.

Yes, that is my initial plan. As it stands I can keep the original fingerboard and change the bass back to a five string and no one would know the difference. At some point within the next five years or so this bass will need some work on the shoulder ribs that will require a decent amount of deconstruction. That would be the point that I would consider doing a more permanent change.