Franklin Hide Glue

Martin Sheridan · #1 06-03-2004, 10:42 AM

Thirty years ago I tried the Franklin Hide Glue which is pre-prepared and usable out of a plactic squeeze bottle. It wouldn't hold and became gummy in humid weather. Realizing that 30 years has passed(the formula may be better?), has anyone had any recent experience with it, and does it work any better?
I still use it for labels and nuts.

Aroneng · #2 06-03-2004, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Sheridan

Thirty years ago I tried the Franklin Hide Glue which is pre-prepared and usable out of a plactic squeeze bottle. It wouldn't hold and became gummy in humid weather. Realizing that 30 years has passed(the formula may be better?), has anyone had any recent experience with it, and does it work any better?
I still use it for labels and nuts.

I used some about two years ago to repair a seam opening between the top and side close to the end pin. Still holding

Marcus Johnson · #3 06-03-2004, 11:17 AM

I'm not a luthier (nor do I play one on TV), but I've seen mostly resistance to the premixed stuff on the MIMF forum, except possibly in some light duty applications.

mje · #4 06-09-2004, 01:48 PM

I used some many years ago in restoring an ancient beat-to-s*** school bass. Held together for at least a year, until I unloaded it. Today I wouldn't use it except in an emergency to close a seam when I couldn't get to my lutheir before a gig, or for a non-stressed part on an instrument. Maybe for gluing rubber bumpers on a bass.

As I understand it, it's just hide glue with urea added, which both keeps it liquid and weakens it.

matt macgown · #5 06-18-2004, 08:02 AM

Does anyone use Elmer's wood glue (besides me?)

**Damon Rondeau** · #6 06-18-2004, 08:49 AM

Matt, woodworkers all over the world use Elmer's wood glue or something like it. It works great, doesn't it? Glue always amazes me....

Luthiers favour hide, though, because of its superior reversability qualities -- you can heat it up, steam it, whatever, and it will let go with zero damage. No other glue is anywhere near as good on that factor.

Hide glue also has a very high retro-coolness factor and smells truly funky.

matt macgown · #7 06-18-2004, 09:18 AM

Thanks for that. I have never used hide glue and would like to try it. I am setting the plans to carve a front for my new 4/4 laminated bass (which already has a huge sound), and should get a handle on edge gluing that won't let go. This year's pet project. There'll be lots of questions - what wood, how many pieces, joining methods, etc. (I've made two fronts - one of cedar, one of fiberglass).

Paul Warburton · #8 06-18-2004, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt macgown

Does anyone use Elmer's wood glue (besides me?)

Hope you don't use Elmers on any parts of a bass that you'd ever have to get un-glued again.......

matt macgown · #9 06-18-2004, 10:00 AM

I've repaired a several basses, but rest assured, I never got them until they were on their last legs! Elmer's is a bit dangerous on old fronts, but by using very thin blades, and several of them, I've been able to "pop" off tops and backs - some very delicate - to readjust after Elmers. Ignorance is bliss? But this activity would take me a whole day, maybe two, filled with fretfull anxiety, especially on delicate old fronts. I wonder how it would be for edge gluing front boards, in the long haul -but would rather learn the standard procedure.

arnoldschnitzer · #10 06-18-2004, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt macgown

Does anyone use Elmer's wood glue (besides me?)

Only those who wish to endure the wrath of every decent luthier on the planet. Not only is elmer's difficult to undo, but it will not re-activate old animal-based glues the way hide or fish glue will (a good attribute when re-gluing open seams). And it dries to a rubbery consistency (compared to hide) which is bad for tone. If you had been a fly on the wall in my shop during any of the sessions I've endured opening up instruments glued with that crap, or cleaning out old white-glued repairs, you might have died just from the verbal invective launched at the perpetrators! Please don't do it.

matt macgown · #11 06-18-2004, 12:34 PM

You betcha! Never again. Now, where do I get hold of this hide glue, or maybe at one of the on - line dealers, such as Metropolitan Music, or Quinn Violins? And is there some brand/or mix that I should get over all others? Mix your own? (I don't need to be incurring wrath, after 20 years of being wrathlessly divorced).

Eric Rene Roy · #12 06-18-2004, 01:02 PM

I've been supplying one of the best glues out there for many years...I dont sell to the public though...so here is one of my customers.

http://www.pioneervalleyluthier.com/...utsup.htm#glue

matt macgown · #13 06-18-2004, 01:11 PM

Thank you very much. I will get some of this glue. This is one of my "retirement" projects, and I plan to have some fun with it. Thank goodness for "Talkbass."

Marcus Johnson · #14 06-18-2004, 02:44 PM

Matt, when you get ready to try hide glue, make sure to check in to the Musical Instrument Makers Forum website (mimf.com). They have an archived library, which contains tone of info on preparing and using hide glue.

arnoldschnitzer · #15 06-18-2004, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt macgown

You betcha! Never again. Now, where do I get hold of this hide glue, or maybe at one of the on - line dealers, such as Metropolitan Music, or Quinn Violins? And is there some brand/or mix that I should get over all others? Mix your own? (I don't need to be incurring wrath, after 20 years of being wrathlessly divorced).

You might want to give the liquid fish glue a try. It's sold by Kremer pigments in NYC. Thin it out a bit. Sorry for coming down on you so hard, but somebody had to do it...

matt macgown · #16 06-18-2004, 06:01 PM

You bet. The best teachers often are not easy on you, and I'm not the least thin skinned. I've already talked with one distributor, and will look into the fish glue, which would never have ocurred to me.

Paul Warburton · #17 06-18-2004, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

You might want to give the liquid fish glue a try. It's sold by Kremer pigments in NYC. Thin it out a bit. Sorry for coming down on you so hard, but somebody had to do it...

Matt, when you mentioned Elmers Glue in your post......If you're kind of new around TBDB,(I checked your profile and see that you're not all that new, but that you've only posted 17 times)
What i'm getting at is how great this Forum is! The information is endless and in case you have'nt looked around, you might look under Basses at the begining of the posts and click on: The Talkbasses. Once in there, take a look at Arnold Schnitzer's work on his featured copy of one of Montagnana's basses. To have the opportunity to get feed-back and info. from a Master Luthier like Arnold is priceless. Not to mention the other Master Luthiers who contribute to this forum.
Again, I only mention this so you can put a face on the guy who yells at ya!!

matt macgown · #18 06-18-2004, 07:41 PM

Relatively new to the forum, but not so new in general. Got that right.I've been looking at the luthier pages for about a year and a half now, trying to decide what to do with a little money and not much. The names have become familiar, but this is the first time I have ventured out of the bass closet, pretty much (been too wrapped up in antique microscopes and wasps/ bees/ ants). I feel elated that these people are on the forums and will actually talk to us, and have been switching from fiddle practice to computer all day here. I'll calm down. I tried some Chinese bases of various sorts over the last two years (including Shens) and began to get itchy fingers again! Laid off playing about ten years ago. I thought.

matt macgown · #19 06-19-2004, 08:47 AM

OK, let me ask one more question. Reversability of hide glue. Couple that with extreme heat and humidity of Mississippi, La, and does that have anything to do with why I've had trouble with necks coming unglued or "softening up," and therefore needing to be reglued? Remember that I am thinking of six hour drives ar 100 degrees and 99% RH, in hot vehicles with or without AC (more often without), Concert halls that only turn the AC on for performances, etc.

I've had a few university basses come to me for fixin' up, and one pof the problems was simply, they came unglued. Hot storage rooms, etc.
Is hide glue that sensitive, by any chance?

I know that when I glue tiny insects to tiny points on insect pins, I have to use a different glue in the deep south than in New England. Most folks do. (There must be some other entomolgical bass players out there). Glue is interesting stuff!