Glueby question - glueing large surfaces

**Matthew Tucker** · #1 04-17-2006, 06:05 PM

I'm building up a neck and bottom blocks out of 50 x 120 tight-grained WRC

I preheated the wood with a heat gun to give me a little more set up time before the glue gels. that seemed to work.

But is there a trick to stop the wood skating and sliding around under clamp pressure? I'm thinking that this is going to be a problem when i start jointing the top.

Jeff Bollbach · #2 04-18-2006, 08:14 AM

Heating a soft wood won't help much. Better to heat your space. A tbsp of urea added to 4 oz of pure hide works well at retarding without sacrifice. Rehearse your clamping procedure, mark clamps and wood with #'s and arrows. Lastly one trick that isn't always kosher is to tack a small brad in the wood and clip it as close as possible to the wood. This leaves a tiny point and locks the new piece in place without skating.

arnoldschnitzer · #3 04-18-2006, 02:47 PM

If you are glueing up layers which are identical in size/shape, make a form to hold them in place while they glue. They can't slip if they are restrained.

**Matthew Tucker** · #4 04-18-2006, 03:59 PM

Thanks guys, all useful suggestions.

I like the registration pin idea, especially as I can put these in a part of the block that will be removed in the shaping. Same when I glue up the wood for the belly, I can put registration pins at the ends that will be cut off before shaping.

I'm not laminating the block, just making up a thick enough piece from what wood I can get easily here in Oz. The grain is still running in the same direction, slightly off vertical. From what I can tell, this will be as good as a single piece, and certainly no worse than block that has cracked and been reglued.

nicklloyd · #5 04-18-2006, 04:23 PM

Multi-piece upper blocks are not uncommon.

You can purchase urea in the form of little white pellets at your local gardening center. Be prepared to only find 50lb bags, though! It will prolly be under $20. 15% (by dry weight) will give you over a minute of clamping time, and the joint-strength will not be adversely affected.

**Matthew Tucker** · #6 04-18-2006, 05:33 PM

Since I've got three fine luthiers in the same room i might as well ask my NEXT question which is - what's your favourite tool or tools for roughing out the top? I have a flat block plane, a stanley 100 1/2 curved sole plane with 15/16 blade, a straight curved-sole wooden plane I made for shaping the corner blocks.

I figure I will need some gouges but which?

It will be a four-piece vertical grained WRC top with max 45mm arching and I'm hoping that increasing the top thicknesses given in the (Chandler) plans by 1mm all over will be enough.

**Damon Rondeau** · #7 04-18-2006, 06:10 PM

I've heard some stories about cabinet-makers of yore -- who of course didn't have nice commercial urea pellets to buy -- doing the job "on the natch" as it were. A little whiz in the glue pot and you've got some retarded glue all right.

Jeff Bollbach · #8 04-18-2006, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

Since I've got three fine luthiers in the same room i might as well ask my NEXT question which is - what's your favourite tool or tools for roughing out the top? I have a flat block plane, a stanley 100 1/2 curved sole plane with 15/16 blade, a straight curved-sole wooden plane I made for shaping the corner blocks.

I figure I will need some gouges but which?

It will be a four-piece vertical grained WRC top with max 45mm arching and I'm hoping that increasing the top thicknesses given in the (Chandler) plans by 1mm all over will be enough.

Why do you want ot make it thicker?
I like curved planes for this job. Don't really use gouges except on the edge and corners.

**Matthew Tucker** · #9 04-18-2006, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Bollbach

Why do you want ot make it thicker?

hmm. Just something i retained from some post on this board i think, said that WRC being lighter and softer than spruce needed to be left thicker to maintain the strength. Maybe I need to research this more. What do you think? You've used WR Cedar for a top I believe.

what size curved planes are you talking about? The variable sole "radius" planes or something more custom-made? Even the biggest Ibex ones seem really tiny for bass-making.

arnoldschnitzer · #10 04-19-2006, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

what size curved planes are you talking about? The variable sole "radius" planes or something more custom-made? Even the biggest Ibex ones seem really tiny for bass-making.

Years ago I took my ECE block plane (beech with a lignum sole) and recut the sole to convex in both directions. Then I rounded the blade, sharpened, and PRESTO!, a huge arching plane. The only negative is that the throat is quite open. It works best on soft woods. Good news is it's big enough to get two hands on.

nicklloyd · #11 04-19-2006, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

Good news is it's big enough to get two hands on.

That's what she said.

Favorite arching tools: power hand planer (to set the long arch and remove gross amounts of wood) router with slot-wing cutter (to set the edge around the outline at 7mm) Lancelot angle grinder (to remove even more huge amount of wood/graduations) these 28" two gouges from Dick (http://www.dick.biz/isroot/dick/File...oss/700977.jpg) will get you great results, and then thumbplanes, scrapers, etc.

With thick graduations you can always go back and thin out areas of the top, if need be.

nicklloyd · #12 04-19-2006, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldschnitzer

The only negative is that the throat is quite open.

I wouldn't complain.

arnoldschnitzer · #13 04-19-2006, 12:58 PM

Moderator!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeff Bollbach · #14 04-19-2006, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Tucker

hmm. Just something i retained from some post on this board i think, said that WRC being lighter and softer than spruce needed to be left thicker to maintain the strength. Maybe I need to research this more. What do you think? You've used WR Cedar for a top I believe.

Wrc is less in specific density but it is a much stiffer wood[shut up, nick]. If you cut two equal lengths of cedar and spruce you can easily feel the difference in flexability. With identical arches of spruce and cedar you could go significantly thinner on the wrc and still have a strong enough arch. That doesn't neccessarily equate to a better tone though.

Uncletoad · #15 04-19-2006, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Bollbach

but it is a much stiffer wood[shut up, nick].

.....ok it's to easy.

**Matthew Tucker** · #16 04-19-2006, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Bollbach

you could go significantly thinner on the wrc and still have a strong enough arch.

more hmmmm ... that's the opposite of what I read read elsewhere. But you've done it, so i believe you. I don't have any spruce to compare with, so I'm going on a hunch really, wrc has a nice ring to it, straight grain no knots, appears stable and light. I suppose I'll just stick with the thicknesses given and go by feel.