historical bridge design, purpose and issues

murkydepths · #1 01-05-2010, 10:55 AM

I have a bass I am preparing to learn to setup. The bass sounds okay before ,but once I removed the strings (and installed another) the e string had lost its power. It sounded like something was keeping it properly vibrating and showing counteracting effects . Well, first of all, I am new to setting this up. I have an adjustable bridge made in Dresden. Question: Is there such a thing as a see-saw effect on the bridge from the e string to the g string? Presure on the bridge differ from string to string, right? Did I just move the bridge a bit from it's old place? I don't see any issue at the point of contact to the top. I don't see gaps (light passing thru) and it seems to be following the curve of the top okay. The strings I use are old spirocores and had put an unknow e string...(bad move, I suppose). I put an old set because I am doing some finishing on it and still want to play on it. I am sure the new old string installed can't be that bad......Please send info about historical design of the bridge and things I need to know about it. Thanks for the help.

Cody Sisk · #2 01-05-2010, 11:13 AM

Strings can make a huge difference in sound, if you put spiros on there and not a spiro E, that's your problem. Spirocores are a really bright and punchy string and chances are that the unknown E you put on is an orchestral string of some kind that is dark and warm. What are the winding colors?

Another thing to consider, did your soundpost move? That'll make a difference.

You said you're refinishing? I'd wait until you're done with the varnish before testing the setup..

murkydepths · #3 01-05-2010, 11:42 AM

I will look and tell you. You have anticapted my second question. Now, come to think of it may not be spiro at all (it came in spiro evelope bags. It has a gold and blue wrapping). Well, I will just buy an e string or just replace the whole thing, start fresh. That settled that. Can you enlighten more about bridge making and things to consider before I can select one to purchase. My bass in an unknown german flatback hybrid.
I was told it is german and I also notice the 2 black piece of ebony on the neck to body contact area and assumed it was from germany. I've seen picture of it....no name also, but german. Do luthiers select a type of bridge for the type of thickness of top? Kinda balancing or mating the structure design......(heavy top and use a light bridge construction....visa versa). What do you think?

Cody Sisk · #4 01-05-2010, 11:53 AM

There's quite a bit of expertise that goes into fitting a bridge that will hold up structurally and will sound good. The width of the bridge feet is determined by the soundpost and bass bar positions. The neck angle and fingerboard shape help determine how to fit the top of the bridge. Adjusters take lots of practice to install properly. The wings need adjustment to tweak the sound. The list is endless, this is why people go to school and/or apprentice to learn this craft. It's not basic carpentry by any means. You may already know all this, I can't be sure. I just wanted to make sure you know what you're getting into.

There are specialized tools that are necessary for the fitting process as well. Are you sure you want to dive into this project? It will cost you more to get all the necessary tools and do it yourself than it will to have a luthier fit you a new bridge.

Where are you located? It seems the Talkbass people are able to find luthiers specializing in basses in all corners of this country..

Cody Sisk · #5 01-05-2010, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murkydepths

Now, come to think of it may not be spiro at all (it came in spiro evelope bags. It has a gold and blue wrapping).

That is a D'addario Helicore string and it is for orchestra. I was right.

james condino · #6 01-06-2010, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DallasStrings

There are specialized tools that are necessary for the fitting process as well. Are you sure you want to dive into this project? It will cost you more to get all the necessary tools and do it yourself than it will to have a luthier fit you a new bridge.

While what Cody said is very valid, on the other side of things, there is no way to really put a price on a lifetime of autonomy and independence gained from the process of learning how to work on your bass. They are big, old, fragile beasts that fall apart, break, and generally seem to need constant maintenance. I'd never suggest someone buy an old volkswagin without at least willing to try to learn basic mechanic skills; the same goes for an old bass. (I've owned and worked on both.) Revoicing a top is one thing for a pro; setting up a new bridge is something that you can learn with minimal invasive techniques. Spending a bit of money on tools will last a lot longer than spending the same amount towards your favorite bartender and you'll feel a lot better the next day...

When I was first learning about working on basses, I made a new bridge from scratch. It was a little rough and the proportions were off, but it worked. I showed it to a pretty skilled luthier who went to an intense violin building school and I was amazed at their reaction. I was mocked and they laughed at my 'cowboy lutheirie. Several years later, nobody laughed at me when I brought in my own fully carved bass to show them- even though they still thought my bridges looked funny. Get a copy of Chuck Traeger's book, ask a lot of questions, and give it a try. Chronicle the process with a thread here- by now you've figured out that there will be plenty of people trying to keep you on track.

If you totally blow it, not much harm done and you always have a pro that you can take it to for recovery. Just like a VW mechanic, a lot of their best customers and jobs come in as a result of people (unsuccessfully) trying to do the work themselves...

j.

drurb · #7 01-06-2010, 08:27 AM

Well, uh... then there's the talent/aptitude issue. I'm okay with electrical, electronics, plumbing, and mechanical. At the same time, I refer to myself as a "wood idiot." I'd never get past the "pathetic stage" in making a bridge. I admire those of you who can do that stuff. It's a good thing that my luthier is only a 1.5 hr drive away!

murkydepths · #8 01-06-2010, 11:59 AM

Yes, for the encouragement. I do have some instrument building and woodworking skills. I'm not afraid on attacking the bridge for now. I want to learn some basic skills for set up like you would with a VW...oil change, tire change etc....not a big deal. If I was a regular gigging bassist or who plays in a symphony, straight to a pro luthier my immortal beloved bass it goes! It is not a good idea to be screwing around on a $5000 dollar instrument.

drurb · #9 01-06-2010, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murkydepths

It is not a good idea to be screwing around on a $5000 dollar instrument.

Thanks! You've provided me with another excuse given that my investment exceeds that number.

sean p · #10 01-06-2010, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DallasStrings

The width of the bridge feet is determined by the soundpost and bass bar positions.

wouldn't it be more accurate to say that the width of the feet is determined by the center seam and bass bar positions? provided your neck projection is down the center of the bass, the bridge should be centered on the seam, and the bass-side foot should be directly over the bass bar. the soundpost position is adjustable, of course, and should not be used to position the bridge.

Cody Sisk · #11 01-06-2010, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean p

wouldn't it be more accurate to say that the width of the feet is determined by the center seam and bass bar positions? provided your neck projection is down the center of the bass, the bridge should be centered on the seam, and the bass-side foot should be directly over the bass bar. the soundpost position is adjustable, of course, and should not be used to position the bridge.

I guess if you were to get more technical and less generalized..

The soundpost might or might not be adjustable. If there's a spot that it likes to sit that makes everything sound good, then its position is fixed. With the initial bridge fit, the neck position and the bass bar are factors, but the center seam I don't ever consider. Often I find that given the neck centering and the bass bar position, the center seam is not dead center..