how bad is it?

[andrewrench]

I'm a newbie to the DB and just picked up a very inexpensive Engelhardt C-1, supposedly built in 1982 (the serial number is 30446). It's actually in really good shape aside from the fact that the neck piece is separated from the body slightly (about 1/8 inch). The neck is not loose in any way and the amount of separation does not change whether the strings are tuned up or loose. It's actually very playable in this condition other than the fact the string action is incredibly high -- about 1.25 inches off the fretboard at the bottom. Who knows, this may have been a deliberate choice for a previous owner, but the person I bought in from knew virtually nothing about the history of the instrument.

My layman assumption was that since the neck is fixed to the body in what looks to be a tongue and groove that has just separated slightly it might not be a complicated repair. None of the wood is cracked and needs repair, it just needs to be 're-set' for lack of a better term.

Here's some pictures:
http://www.andrewrench.com/photo37.jpg
http://www.andrewrench.com/photo38.jpg

So, any ideas how bad this really is? Am I going to spend more on a repair than the cost of a new EC-1? Or, since it's not loose, can I leave it as-is?

Also -- if anyone can recommend a good luthier to work on this project in the western suburbs of Chicago it would be greatly appreciated.

thanks!

[KSB - Ken Smith]

I had this happen to a Bass of mine just 2 years ago. I was at an Orchestra Rehearsal and my Bass kept going flat. I looked at the neck/button and saw it was lifting out.

To avoid further damage or even injury, loosen the strings on the Bass NOW. Many production Basses and some handmade ones as well have ill-fit Neck-Block joints. IF for some reason the glue just failed and the fit is good then it only needs to be re-glued. professionally.

IF, the Block fit is bad, the Neck has to come out and be re-fitted and the Block possibly re-built or internally shimmed. That's what was done on my Bass.

Have Arnold explain this one to you in professional terms. He mentioned that my Neck/Block re-fit job was severe and needed all of the above.

Caution: Pouring more glue into an ill fitted joint will fail sooner or later.

[andrewrench]

Thanks for the insight Ken. I definitely plan to have it looked at by a professional. I can't tell for sure, but it looks to me like a very clean break. There is no splintered wood and from what I can see the exposed areas where the 2 pieces meet are finished saw cuts. I can even put pressure on the front of the neck and it fits back in very cleanly with no noticeable gaps. It really seems like it just separated at the glue, but I will have to have a professional take a look.

[bassist1962]

Here is a list of luthiers in the Chicago area:

IL, Chicago, Larson Lutherie, Brad Larson, 773.561.0588, members.aol.com/LarsonLutherie/
repairs, restorations, new instruments
IL, Chicago, Scott Henrie, 773.743.8738, fax 773.743.8130
Repairs and custom work.
IL, Chicago, Mark Hogan, A440, 773-348-4949 marc@a440violinshop.com, a440violinshop.com
Services and sells all bowed instruments.
IL, Chicago, Sonksen Strings, Mark Sonksen, (312) 421-6472, mark@sonksenstrings.com, sonksenstrings.com/
Repairs, basses, accessories
IL, Wheeling, Classic Contrabass, Michelle Fiore, 847-670-0322 Michelle@AllThingsBass.com • AllThingsBass.com
Repairs, sales and rentals

This information was obtained through this website: http://www.gollihurmusic.com/

Bob Gollihur is well respected in the DB comunity, and is willing to answer any questions you may have as well. Check the site out, it is very informative.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by andrewrench

Thanks for the insight Ken. I definitely plan to have it looked at by a professional. I can't tell for sure, but it looks to me like a very clean break. There is no splintered wood and from what I can see the exposed areas where the 2 pieces meet are finished saw cuts. I can even put pressure on the front of the neck and it fits back in very cleanly with no noticeable gaps. It really seems like it just separated at the glue, but I will have to have a professional take a look.

The Gaps I talk about are not the edges you see. It is the hidden mortise area underneath that you can't see where the Neck is seated. The area you see now is just cosmetic. I am talking about the actual structural fit and the possible reason the joint may have failed.

[oldnoob]

Is there a directory to be found for Luthier's in the United States? I live in Tennessee and have yet to find one.

[milomo]

Originally Posted by oldnoob

Is there a directory to be found for Luthier's in the United States? I live in Tennessee and have yet to find one.

Here

[james condino]

A half dozen years ago, I had an old cutaway Framus that I was using as a bar gig bass. It had a neck joint that was in the early stages of what you've got. I knew it needed a bit of work, but the shop was full with other people's instruments that I was working on, so I let it slide and kept playing it. I finally got things worked out so I was going to reset it on Monday morning. I made the call to gig with it the Friday before. It was a small crowded pub with a room that the bass cut through great on the sound check. We were having a few PA issues, so I made the call to not plug in and just play it loud and hard.

Towards the end of the second set, I hit a clock signal and laid into it. The entire neck joint separated and flew off the body on stage! The crowd went wild thinking that it was all just part of the act and I must have laughed for 20 minutes. Every time I see a similar one, I remind folks of my poor judgement that day....

If you're in eastern Tenessee, I'm just up the hill in Asheville. Stop by the shop and I can show you the insides of a couple other basses with necks off to get a better visual understanding and increase your working knowledge of neck joints. On the big scale of bass life, yours is a very manageable repair, but don't ask me for advice on how long you can put it off!!!! I'd follow Ken's advice, back off the tension and get it fixed.

j.
www.condino.com

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Well, this nearly happened to me I guess. I stand behind the Cellos/Violas on the first stand. I noticed the Neck lifting during the end of the first half of rehearsal. I went to the conductor at the break (which 15 minutes felt like hours waiting for him to call the break). I called him over, showed him my Neck lifting up from the Back button and said, "I better go home before I kill a Viola player"..lol .. He agreed that was best!

[el_mariachi]

Andrew,

Where in the western 'burbs are you, if you don't mind me asking? I just took my bass to Michelle Fiore up in Wheeling (about 1/2 hour drive north on 294 from the O'Hare area). I'm getting some overall setup work done along with a new bridge, endpin, and tailgut. From people I've talked to that have delt with her, they have had nothing but praise. If you want to wait a couple of weeks I can tell you how the outcome was. But its worth shooting her an email with those pics attached. good luck and let us know what happens.

[andrewrench]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Have Arnold explain this one to you in professional terms. He mentioned that my Neck/Block re-fit job was severe and needed all of the above.

Is Arnold a list member? I love to hear a more detailed explanation of how the part of the bass is constructed and how it's repaired.

Ken, do you mind letting me know the approximate cost for your repair?

[andrewrench]

Originally Posted by el_mariachi

Andrew,

Where in the western 'burbs are you, if you don't mind me asking? I just took my bass to Michelle Fiore up in Wheeling (about 1/2 hour drive north on 294 from the O'Hare area). I'm getting some overall setup work done along with a new bridge, endpin, and tailgut. From people I've talked to that have delt with her, they have had nothing but praise. If you want to wait a couple of weeks I can tell you how the outcome was. But its worth shooting her an email with those pics attached. good luck and let us know what happens.

I'm out in Glen Ellyn, which isn't too far from you. I just sent her an email with my pics -- I'll see what she says, thanks!

[andrewrench]

Originally Posted by james condino

A half dozen years ago, I had an old cutaway Framus that I was ...
www.condino.com

great story! I'll take your advice.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by andrewrench

Is Arnold a list member? I love to hear a more detailed explanation of how the part of the bass is constructed and how it's repaired.

Ken, do you mind letting me know the approximate cost for your repair?

Well, it would hard to figure it exactly because it had just been restored and converted to a 5-string. The Neck area and the Back though were not touched because they both looked fine. I guess after everything else was done and the 5th string added, the extra tension may have contributed.

Arnold quoted me a range of cost but after completing the job mentioned that he quoted way too low for the work he had to do including re-building the Block. He did however stick to the price he quoted and I paid the higher end of his quote and never doubted his charges.

[vejesse]

Don't forget about the Double Bass Workshop in Madison, Wi.

Phone: 608-204-9590
email: info@doublebassworshop.com