Intonation Frustration..

Lowendmad · #1 02-09-2009, 03:23 AM

Hello all.
I've been playing double bass for about 8 years now.
I'm a primarily a jazz player and I pride myself on having strong ears.
I bought a czech bass about 5 years ago and still to this day I have unsatisfactory intonation issues on my own bass, yet when I sit in on other peoples basses I often get great comments about my great intonation..
The thing is I seem to feel somewhat uneasy on my own bass. Ongoing saga...
I currently live in New Zealand and there aren't many luthiers around. The one guy I did take it to put a new fingerboard on it a few years back but I'm still not satisfied with my intonation.
Is it possible that my fb is too straight? If it had more relief would it make it easy to achieve better pitch? I just jammed on a friends bass the other night and it felt so easy to play in tune and I could feel the difference in the fingerboard. I noticed my bass had more sustain but I think I like that thump more on his. Could this be a fb relief issue?
Excuse my ignorance as I'm still learning but I would love any guidance on this subject.

RD · #2 02-09-2009, 04:31 AM

Do those who compliment your intonation on other basses say that it is poor on your bass? I don't know what the physical differences between well set-up basses would have to do with having good intonation. But then, I don't have a lot of experience with the DB. I don't know how much differences in mensure between these basses could have to do with it. It seems to me good intonation is good intonation regardless of mensure.
On the face of it I suspect that you may simply have a better "ear" than those complimenting your intonation and/or you are being overly self-critical. Which is a good, though self-defeating, tendency.
RD

Eli_Upright12 · #3 02-09-2009, 06:28 AM

What's the string lenght? sometimes basses with long string lengths are harder to play in tune because of the bigger stretch between notes. This is something that can be adjusted for though.

RD · #4 02-09-2009, 07:32 AM

Mensure=playable string length
RD

EggyToast · #5 02-09-2009, 09:16 AM

What's weird is that you practice on your own bass, so that should be the one your ears get used to. As in, your ear would say "out of tune" and your fingers would adjust accordingly.

But yeah, if there always seems to be a difference, you may have learned on whatever string length and your current bass is not that, while your friend's bass is.

robobass · #6 02-09-2009, 09:52 AM

It might just be the bass. I've heard people complain that they just don't feel "in tune" on a certain instrument. I think some basses just don't resonate properly, and don't give the positive harmonic feedback you get from a really sweet bass. Fixing the problem (if it can be fixed at all) might involve trimming or replacing the bassbar, or even regraduating the top. I think your best bet is to simply get a different bass.

Jake deVilliers · #7 02-09-2009, 10:31 AM

Maybe before taking the top off you could try tuning the afterlengths and mode-matching the tailpiece. These simple setup steps are good at removing phase-cancelling frequencies that disrupt your bass's sound production.

mheintz · #8 02-09-2009, 11:04 AM

I have found that some basses are difficult to hear from the player's position, but sound more clear to the audience. If you are accustomed to playing with a straight endpin in an extremely vertical manner, you could try leaning the bass back more either in a sitting position or with an angled endpin. The f holes will be pointed more towards you and you'll be able to hear the bass better.

jtlownds · #9 02-09-2009, 11:20 AM

How old are your strings? If they are really old, they may be falsing on you, making you think you are off, when you are really spot on.

Lowendmad · #10 02-09-2009, 12:42 PM

Thank you all for you responses.

I just measured the string length nut-bridge and it comes to 108cm. Its a 1950 3/4 Czech bass.
I just put new strings on last week.
It is an Eb stop neck, I don't know if thats what you're meant to call it..
I don't get people commenting on my bad intonation on my own bass and I guess my ears could be fooling me into believing it's not as bad as I think.
But I am still not convinced that this bass is working for me. Maybe it just comes down to the fact we aren't meant to be together..

**Matthew Tucker** · #11 02-09-2009, 02:11 PM

That's 42.5" and probably a bit longer than the most common mensure, so if you are going onto a bass with a shorter string length, and or with a D neck, it might well feel more comfortable.

Many Czech basses of that period had 44" string length and Eb necks. Do you have a "false nut"? Is your bridge centered on the FF nicks?

robobass · #12 02-09-2009, 03:24 PM

I just don't think that string length plays into the equation here, for Lowendmad or anyone else. I have several basses with varying string lengths, including some kiddie models which have cello-like string lengths. When I pick one up that I haven't played for awhile there is of course a short adjustment process, but after a few minutes I am good to go (as they say in the Army). Since I play a variety of basses, maybe I am more adaptable, but if someone isn't happy with intonation on his main bass, what he plays every day, it's just not plausable that the string length, even if it's unusual, is the problem. Especially if he's comfortable on other people's basses.

Lowendmad · #13 02-09-2009, 04:09 PM

I agree Robobass.
I actually never have trouble on either a d or anybody elses eb neck. Just takes a couple of mins are you're good to go usually. I just think there's something I'm missing here. Maybe when I'm back In Toronto later this year I'll take it to someone there and they can give it a once over.
By the way my bridge is centered properly. but whats a false nut?

Once again, thanks for the thoughts.

RD · #14 02-09-2009, 04:30 PM

Lowend,
It sounds like you maybe confusing D and Eb necks with mensure. Either stop can have any mensure that the luthier chooses (i.e. a D neck with a 43" mensure or an Eb neck with a 41 1/2" mensure.) So with the same mensure and different stops the basses may play very near equally with regard to intonation, especially in the lower register.
If you understood that, disregard with apologies.
Question: Is there anything you particularly like about this bass? If not sell it and find another.
RD

Lowendmad · #15 02-09-2009, 05:47 PM

I do understand mensure I was just saying I don't find it that hard to play both kinds of necks.
Anyway, in regard to your question. I just really like the sound of my bass and it travels so well. Its a big sound for a 3/4 and it sounds great through an amp too.
I guess I'll take it to a pro and see if there's a solution.
Cheers.

uprightben · #16 02-10-2009, 03:08 PM

The comment at the end of the O.P. about jamming on a friend's bass that sounded "thumpier" and with less sustain and feeling more in tune makes me think that your bass has a tone that emphasizes the middle frequencies. On such a bass, pitch stands out more, and thumpier basses tend to be more forgiving, or ambiguous, pitch wise. It's hard to have perfect intonnation on bass, and if you have really sharp ears, good enough can drive you crazy. I read a book where a cello prodigy had this same problem and had to quit performing beause of it. While I would say we all need to strive for perfect inntonation, we also must not let that goal stop us from enjoying music.

Lowendmad · #17 02-11-2009, 04:20 PM

Maybe you're right. I think I may be letting it get to me a little too much.
I think you might have even hit the nail on the head.

Andrew McGregor · #18 02-11-2009, 06:58 PM

Where in NZ are you? I can probably point you in the direction of someone useful to help with this if I know where you are.

Lowendmad · #19 02-11-2009, 07:12 PM

Hi Andrew.
I'm in Christchurch actually. I see you're from CHCH too.
I've been to Peter over in Lyttleton and he does great work but seems kinda baffled with my problems. I'm just about to leave for Canada so I think I may take it to someone there when I arrive as I'll probably need some work done when I arrive anyway.
Thanks for your help.

chris dammann · #20 02-11-2009, 07:18 PM

you might want to think about getting a marvin wire tailpiece. it made my bass have much clearer pitch. i am able to hear the actually pitch much easier than i could with a traditional tailpiece allowing me to play with better intonation. i have no idea why.